Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 8:36:08 GMT
Oddly for the first time in a long time maybe 20 or so years there is a distinct difference between the main parties. We're not faced with 3 ex-public schoolboys all cut from the same cloth, with varying degrees of wishy-washy centre-right bullshit. There's a clear difference between at the very least the two main parties. On one hand you have Theresa May who everyday is turning more and more into Margaret Thatcher (ask any Northerner how fondly they remember her) and Jeremy Corbyn who judging by Labours leaked manifesto wasnt to take us back to the 1970s.
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Tsupernami
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Post by Tsupernami on May 12, 2017 18:25:53 GMT
Corbyn become more electable for me every day. His cabinet does not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 10:21:11 GMT
I like Corbyn, there's something very likeable about a guy with a beard who wears pastel shirts.
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Post by endersai on May 18, 2017 4:02:17 GMT
www.economist.com/blogs/speakerscorner/2017/05/manifesto-madness The Labour Party raises the bar for electoral suicide notes
Jeremy Corbyn has managed to outdo Tony Benn, his political mentorLook at the cover of one of the most notorious documents in British political history and you may be tempted to read on. The Labour Party’s 1983 election manifesto offers “New Hope for Britain” on a bright yellow background, complete with pictures of jolly pensioners, earnest young women and cute toddlers.
But delve inside its 39 pages and it is easy to see why one Labour MP at the time, Gerald Kaufman, famously described it as “the longest suicide note in history.” It was the most left-wing manifesto in the party’s history, at a time when Britain, governed by the Conservatives under Margaret Thatcher, was clearly moving in the opposite direction. Labour leader Michael Foot, however, was in no mood to concede anything to the spirit of the age; instead the manifesto promised a wholesale Socialist programme, including unilateral nuclear disarmament and withdrawal from the European Economic Community.
It was not only the policies themselves that shocked Labour moderates, but the sheer number of them: over the course of 23,000 words the party adopted a socialist policy on everything from leisure (page 31) to the Law of the Sea (page 38), in no particular order. “Tough measures” to control the use of herbicides appear on page 15; the plan to renounce nuclear weapons, which could have resulted in splitting up the Western alliance at the height of the cold war, is announced on page 36.
It turned out that the average punter was left just as bewildered by the document. Labour suffered a record defeat at the election in 1983, giving Mrs Thatcher a further two terms in office. The party’s manifesto from that election has since become a byword for political irrelevance.
Today, for the first time since 1983, the left-wing of the party is once again firmly in charge. Tony Benn, the left-winger who wrote much of “New Hope for Britain”, was a political mentor to Jeremy Corbyn, the current Labour leader. Mr Corbyn was first elected to parliament in 1983, and has never disavowed that manifesto. How does his own effort, which was released on May 16th, compare to its predecessor?
Probably much to the delight of political scientists, Mr Corbyn has managed to eclipse his political hero. His manifesto, “For the Many, not the Few”, released on May 16th, is even longer, at 24,500 words. If anything, it is also more explicitly left-wing. There are specific commitments to nationalise the Royal Mail, energy, rail and water companies. Benn merely promised to take “significant public stakes in electronics, pharmaceuticals, health equipment and building materials,” although he reserved the right to intervene in any other important sector “as required”. Benn promised plenty of “industrial democracy” and a five-year plan, but Corbyn also promises “more democratic ownership structures”, a vast extension of workers’ rights, a new ministry of labour and an industrial strategy (properly, unlike the Tories).
But it is in the length and breadth of the 2017 manifesto that it most closely resembles its august predecessor. Once again, Mr Corbyn tries to prove that there is a socialist policy on everything. Thus on page 89 Labour pledges to expand the role of the Grocers Code Adjudicator, while on page 112 the party promises to “protect the right to a nomadic way of life”. All, again, in no particular order. The vital Benedict Cumberbatch/Eddie Redmanye issue, of there being too many toffs in the theatre, appears on page 92. Readers may be forgiven for flagging before they get to national defence on page 120, where a plan to drive up standards in “service accommodation” gets the same amount of attention as Labour’s commitment to a nuclear deterrent.
But it’s with the party’s policy on puppies that the 2017 manifesto magnificently trumps the 1983 version. Kaufman recalled that one of the left-wingers in 1983 wanted to get a policy on puppy-farming into the manifesto, but this was too much detail even for Tony Benn. But there it is, on page 94 of “For the Many, not the Few”—the pledge to “prohibit the third-party sale of puppies.” At least Mr Corbyn’s Labour party will go down fighting for what they believe in.
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Banter
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Post by Banter on May 18, 2017 5:18:36 GMT
As someone who is certainly of the left, I cannot stand to see what Labour has become. The party has become illiberal and seems to seek to serve a middle-class voter base over that of the working class. It's how we've ended up in this bizarre situation with the bloody tories polling highest among lower income families. It is my view, as a student of Politics and of History, that Labour need to undergo huge internal reform, or need to be replaced with a new left/liberal party. Corbyn and his cabinet have to go. The party is infected with communists and identitarians that care more about 'being on the right side of history' than serving a free society that also cares for the vulnerable. Labour have engineered as situation, through their own uselessness, in which May is the preferable candidate to many. Corbyn should be avoiding taking the party back to the 70's at all costs, as it was the party's failings then that handed government over to Thatcher. There's a group of 100ish Labour MPs who aren't part of Labour's socialist cult who say they will form their own party if (or when) Corbyn loses, and I hope they do. The left needs a viable alternative to Labour's current hippy-dippy communist bullshit. Then again, you still wouldn't catch me dead voting Tory.
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Tsupernami
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Post by Tsupernami on May 18, 2017 5:22:12 GMT
My mind may change before the election, but currently Labour has my vote. Until we get rid of the prehistoric first past the post system, we're only going to have two parties vote for.
Also, the tories are pricks, and according to the kick the tories out spreadsheet, I need to vote for Labour in my constituency, so I'm fine with that. As long as it wasn't a vote for UKIP or BNP, I was happy with most options.
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Post by T-BoneCapone_ on May 18, 2017 7:12:02 GMT
Even though I'm not too keen on Corbyn as a potential PM I will be voting Labour with great pleasure. The Torries are greedy fools who are just out for themselves.
Privatise the NHS? Who in their right mind would support this? Absolute joke.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2017 8:09:38 GMT
As someone who is certainly of the left, I cannot stand to see what Labour has become. The party has become illiberal and seems to seek to serve a middle-class voter base over that of the working class. It's how we've ended up in this bizarre situation with the bloody tories polling highest among lower income families. It is my view, as a student of Politics and of History, that Labour need to undergo huge internal reform, or need to be replaced with a new left/liberal party. Corbyn and his cabinet have to go. The party is infected with communists and identitarians that care more about 'being on the right side of history' than serving a free society that also cares for the vulnerable. Labour have engineered as situation, through their own uselessness, in which May is the preferable candidate to many. Corbyn should be avoiding taking the party back to the 70's at all costs, as it was the party's failings then that handed government over to Thatcher. There's a group of 100ish Labour MPs who aren't part of Labour's socialist cult who say they will form their own party if (or when) Corbyn loses, and I hope they do. The left needs a viable alternative to Labour's current hippy-dippy communist bullshit. Then again, you still wouldn't catch me dead voting Tory. Ah the echoes of youth. I used to consider myself left as a younger man, although as you grow older (and perhaps wiser) you will learn your political opinions will inevitably drift more centre and eventually toward the right. I am by no means anywhere near the right but I've noticed my opions are slowly drifting more and more toward the centre. As I said quite recently if it makes any sense, as I grow older I become less tolerant but more patient.
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Tsupernami
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Post by Tsupernami on May 18, 2017 8:35:50 GMT
As I said quite recently if it makes any sense, as I grow older I become less tolerant but more patient. I think this is quite appropriate. As seen by the recent brexit vote, with the older generations more likely to leave, whereas those younger voted to remain. The simple fact then that more older eligible voters actually voted, it was always going to be that way. This election could be the same. My girlfriend's mother is voting Tory because she "wants a United government". I think the opposite is more desirable, a strong opposition that can hold the government to account and provides views from all classes within the UK population. The worst thing about our current political system is the first past the post. We need proportional representation, it's utterly ludicrous that a party can get less than 50% of the vote but effectively have 100% control of Parliament. Same with the SNP having less votes than both Lib Dems and UKIP (as much as I hate them) but have 10 times as many MPs as both of them together.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2017 10:06:13 GMT
As I said quite recently if it makes any sense, as I grow older I become less tolerant but more patient. I think this is quite appropriate. As seen by the recent brexit vote, with the older generations more likely to leave, whereas those younger voted to remain. The simple fact then that more older eligible voters actually voted, it was always going to be that way. This election could be the same. My girlfriend's mother is voting Tory because she "wants a United government". I think the opposite is more desirable, a strong opposition that can hold the government to account and provides views from all classes within the UK population. The worst thing about our current political system is the first past the post. We need proportional representation, it's utterly ludicrous that a party can get less than 50% of the vote but effectively have 100% control of Parliament. Same with the SNP having less votes than both Lib Dems and UKIP (as much as I hate them) but have 10 times as many MPs as both of them together. I'd rather saw my testicles off than vote Tory. In fact I'd rather vote UKIP than Tory... and I'm neither a racist, football hooligan or have the Union nor St Georges Flag tattooed on my body and I hate UKIP and everthing they stand for.
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Tsupernami
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Post by Tsupernami on May 18, 2017 10:28:13 GMT
I think this is quite appropriate. As seen by the recent brexit vote, with the older generations more likely to leave, whereas those younger voted to remain. The simple fact then that more older eligible voters actually voted, it was always going to be that way. This election could be the same. My girlfriend's mother is voting Tory because she "wants a United government". I think the opposite is more desirable, a strong opposition that can hold the government to account and provides views from all classes within the UK population. The worst thing about our current political system is the first past the post. We need proportional representation, it's utterly ludicrous that a party can get less than 50% of the vote but effectively have 100% control of Parliament. Same with the SNP having less votes than both Lib Dems and UKIP (as much as I hate them) but have 10 times as many MPs as both of them together. I'd rather saw my testicles off than vote Tory. In fact I'd rather vote UKIP than Tory... and I'm neither a racist, football hooligan or have the Union nor St Georges Flag tattooed on my body and I hate UKIP and everthing they stand for. There's no ukip candidate for my constituency, great result. So their votes from 2015 should be spread out. Unfortunately that will likely be tory. I have 4 options: Labour, Tory, Lib Dems and Green. The Lib Dem one is only 23 years old! Good effort.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2017 10:50:00 GMT
I'd rather saw my testicles off than vote Tory. In fact I'd rather vote UKIP than Tory... and I'm neither a racist, football hooligan or have the Union nor St Georges Flag tattooed on my body and I hate UKIP and everthing they stand for. There's no ukip candidate for my constituency, great result. So their votes from 2015 should be spread out. Unfortunately that will likely be tory. I have 4 options: Labour, Tory, Lib Dems and Green. The Lib Dem one is only 23 years old! Good effort. UKIP will eventually go the same way as the BNP did and I can't wait for that day to come soon enough. My only concern is what monster will come after it
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Tsupernami
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Post by Tsupernami on May 18, 2017 10:53:00 GMT
There's no ukip candidate for my constituency, great result. So their votes from 2015 should be spread out. Unfortunately that will likely be tory. I have 4 options: Labour, Tory, Lib Dems and Green. The Lib Dem one is only 23 years old! Good effort. UKIP will eventually go the same way as the BNP did and I can't wait for that day to come soon enough. My only concern is what monster will come after it EDL?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2017 11:22:06 GMT
Aren't they just basically retired fooball hooligans on a day trip with their local pub?
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Theign
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Post by Theign on May 18, 2017 12:39:33 GMT
If you want an alternative to Labour for the left, vote Lib Dem.
As for Jeremy Corbyn, I cant agree that he is stuck in the 70s. Its clearly the 50s.
The guy is an idealist, I have nothing against Idealists, the problem is that he seems to think he can just force his ideals upon the world and it will all work out.
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