drummerloin
Member
I'm faster in reverse.
Posts: 202
Registered on: June 2014
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Post by drummerloin on Mar 28, 2015 17:49:28 GMT
In your opinion, what makes a created track on GTA V a good track to race on? Is it a race that forces drivers to use every last ounce of their technical ability? One that is fast and has lots of room for overtaking? One that is easy to drive around thus creating a more balanced race for the drivers? Share your opinions!
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Post by jbcarfreek on Apr 6, 2015 11:10:28 GMT
When the tracklayout and the props make sence. for the layout i like it more when a track isn't too wide (2 lane is perfect) since wider lanes allow for more different racinglines and more chrashes do happen when you don't know what the next guy is going to do. Also a track has to have a theme to it. Some stracks just go everywhere and nowere just "gluing" good corners together but failing at delivering a fun experiance and geanerally being way too long. and at last blind corners, random chichanes and unneeded hairpins just ruin a good track. And then you have the props... horrible, instead of helping the track they make it impossible or extreamly dangereaus to race.
A piece of advice don't look at Shaggy or broughy on how to create a track, they provide a deceant base but look at some guys in the crew whose races are form alot higher standart. one example is seanL made a track almost identical to BL24 a month before broughy did, everyone disliked it, but when broughy's recreated it it got tons of likes.
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Post by LancerEvoWRC on Apr 6, 2015 12:57:40 GMT
What I think is important is where to put the start/finish. It must be placed in a way that you don't get a pile up in the first corner. It should not be like a sharp blind corner or a chicane. Use a suited grid for what's comming next. I think two line grids is the best, medium or large and I don't think it's necessary squeeze in 30 players on every track. You will never fill that lobby anyway and Broughy will never use it either.
I agree with everything jb mentions and when using props I think it's important that they are placed in a way that if the driver in front of you do a mistake, his/her car is thrown away from the racing line and not stays in it. That is like tire lines on the inside or exit of a corner. When a car hit's those, they are stuck or stays in the racing line. The same thing happens when using tire stacks. If you touch them your car is glued to them and the only way to get away from them is by reversing (even if you have one on your side of the car ).
Another thing (and this is my opinion), when using concrete barriers on an apex, like on the track "Hit The Apex". I would have angled them so the car don't stop when they actually hits them, but throws the car out of the racing line.
Example: If I have a car on my tail in a like a left corner and I drive bad as I usually do..... I hit the angled apex barrier and my car takes off to the right. The car behind drives unaffected away one spot higher on the list
The flow of the track is importand. How the corners are connected and the general use of the roads. I like two line roads too as jb, but also with a mix of wider roads. Long straights with 90 degree corners here and there are not a good solution. A hairpin should have some space with possibility to overshoot, so the traffic behind don't pile up in a bottleneck, created with barriers.
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Pardonias
Member
Posts: 138
Registered on: December 2014
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Post by Pardonias on Apr 6, 2015 16:42:05 GMT
For me, the most important thing is that it doesn't feel like the checkpoints define where you go, i.e. you merely collect the checkpoints (like on many R* tracks), but the track should be defined by the roads and have clearly defined track limits, possibly by usage of props. The checkpoints aren't a physical part of the track, but they merely assert that everyone uses the correct roads. You should never have to worry about missing checkpoints, which is why I usually put props at apices. I also prefer if the outside of corners is clearly defined on entry and exit and if the main racing line doesn't run across curbs and behind lamp posts.
For the grid, I prefer the large 2x15 grid, as this is the best way to avoid first-corner incidents. If the grid is more compact, a lot more people try to pass the first corner at the same time, so everyone needs to slow down a lot more, especially those starting at the back of the grid, much like in a traffic jam. As everyone wants to make it through the first corner as fast as possible, that's often causing those incidents. I wouldn't artificially limit the grid to less than 30 players, unless there are obvious reasons for it, and instead leave it to the host to adjust the settings, to non-contact for instance.
As for tirestacks, I've observed a trend to put them on every pole, but, in my opinion, this only makes sense if drivers are supposed to be allowed to go left and right of the pole. Otherwise, a concrete barrier would be a better choice, as you don't get stuck on them. I understand Lancer advocating angled barriers, but personally I prefer to place them at 90 degrees to the racing line as they don't throw you across the lanes, possibly taking out other drivers, but also because they can tell you a bit about the corner (e.g. late apex) if you bear in mind they're at 90 degrees to the racing line.
That said, the choice of roads and layout of the track is probably more important to me than the choice and usage of props. Like Lancer, I like to see more than just 90 degree corners that are connected by long straights.
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drummerloin
Member
I'm faster in reverse.
Posts: 202
Registered on: June 2014
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Post by drummerloin on Apr 6, 2015 16:54:27 GMT
All good points, and I agree with all of them.
What are your opinions on 'hand-made' corners? That is, placing down barriers and checkpoints in such a way to create something such as a chicane where there wouldn't otherwise be one. I've seen this done a couple of times and most of the time they seem really narrow and awkward compared to the rest of the track.
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Post by jbcarfreek on Apr 6, 2015 17:09:36 GMT
i have to agree with lancer on the barriers. 90° barriers cause more havoc and are placed on the straits most of the time so they shouldn't even be there. And if they are placed at a corner they couse a pile-up at the apex like tyrestacks. an other ting i wanna toutch on is blind barriers afther a corner. if you plan on restricting the exit of the corner you need to be able to see this before going into the corner otherwise you will be on too wide of a line and 90% of the time hit it. also CP's can be used strategically to prevent ppl from taking crebs without any hidiously placed barriers.
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Post by jbcarfreek on Apr 6, 2015 17:11:42 GMT
All good points, and I agree with all of them. What are your opinions on 'hand-made' corners? That is, placing down barriers and checkpoints in such a way to create something such as a chicane where there wouldn't otherwise be one. I've seen this done a couple of times and most of the time they seem really narrow and awkward compared to the rest of the track. Don't do it. looks fun in the creator but is most of the time akward and annoying in races. lancer did it in his grapeseed race and im sorry but its just not good and if he can't pull it off, nobody can
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Post by Ser Tandur on Apr 6, 2015 18:10:03 GMT
Safety is priority number one in my book. If everyone died the first time they drove on a racing track because of insane racing lines and outrageous speed through corners, nobody would race anymore in real life.
I suggest everyone study real life tracks and their history of how they got to their current layout. Often times, many of the iconic corners of our favorite tracks were created to slow drivers down as cars got faster over the years.
I am not a fan of any track that encourages pole cuts or mounting a sidewalk for a wider line through a corner. I feel these are outrageous, unrealistic, and not safe at all. Tracks like these will have more wrecks and more clusterfucks.
One other rule of thumb I live by when making a road course is Two Lanes. If two cars cannot fit side by side with a few feet of space on either side, it won't make it into my tracks.
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Post by LancerEvoWRC on Apr 6, 2015 20:13:49 GMT
All good points, and I agree with all of them. What are your opinions on 'hand-made' corners? That is, placing down barriers and checkpoints in such a way to create something such as a chicane where there wouldn't otherwise be one. I've seen this done a couple of times and most of the time they seem really narrow and awkward compared to the rest of the track. Don't do it. looks fun in the creator but is most of the time akward and annoying in races. lancer did it in his grapeseed race and im sorry but its just not good and if he can't pull it off, nobody can Often they get too narrow yes. And jb, I agree on my Grapeseed track. The plan was to make them as chicanes as they actually follows the road with a minor extend on one of the sides. But I could not avoid pile ups, so I removed some of the outside barriers after the chicane so if ppl takes it wrong they will go off the road. The track is also very hard to get overtakes properly. It's fast and narrow and I'm not very happy with it
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DJ_BIG_L
Member
Posts: 420
Registered on: February 2015
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Post by DJ_BIG_L on Apr 6, 2015 20:56:33 GMT
Checkpoints before corners must always be far enough away ... For us to anticipate the turns. Think secure the race as a player who has made a bad race always bad note ... And my personal opinion, do not put too many barriers in racing, not just for those who will come out to your race have the surprises, I love races rather simple and the joilie tracks, Los Santos offer us the very best roads and millions of possibilities, so no need to do too much ...
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drummerloin
Member
I'm faster in reverse.
Posts: 202
Registered on: June 2014
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Post by drummerloin on Apr 6, 2015 21:56:10 GMT
I'll add a couple of points myself now this thread has taken off.
When placing checkpoints in the creator, and testing your tracks, always bear in mind that the majority of people racing on your track in a lobby will be doing so for the first time. So bear this in mind. Look at your checkpoints. When driving through one, is it clear as to where the next one will be? And does the racer have enough time to react? I've seen a few races (usually people's first tracks) that have checkpoints so close to another checkpoint (where the latter is on a corner), that after hitting the first CP, the second one flashes up showing a 90% left-hander, and you have absolutely no time to brake. It may seem like I'm telling you how to suck eggs here, but it's just an example. Checkpoints should be used not only to create the layout, but also guide the player as easily as possible in terms of direction, and braking. Sometimes less is more; consider using one checkpoint on a tight left-left (for example, going around one of the subway entrances in Rockford) instead of two (the second of which is usually blind), as unless the line allows you to see it in time, new racers to the track will be thrown off.
Secondly, as djbigl said above, sometimes simpler tracks are the best. They don't have to be overly complex, just fun to drive on.
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Post by tjezc☻ on Apr 9, 2015 13:21:37 GMT
On the subject of 'custom corners' I agree it doesn't work in many cases. But with so many races and so many corners that we already know so well, I think it has potential. The inner city roads are incredibly wide and a corner there can often be altered in some way. As for checkpoint placement, the only thing I know is what R* tipped me when I went for my first track (I'm not good at this, really. Don't drive my tracks.). Rockstar said that a checkpoint had to be placed just before the apex of a corner, and the next checkpoint should always be visible when you've just hit one.
About what I like in tracks, I really can't say. I pretty much like to do any race if it's not 95% straight. Even with jumps. If there's a badly placed prop, I'll be more cautious the next lap. I like to adapt to the track, not have it the other way around.
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double_s92
Member
head toilet cleaner
Inconsistantly Constant
Posts: 1,709
Registered on: May 2014
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Post by double_s92 on Apr 9, 2015 13:31:25 GMT
Ramps, we need more ramps.
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Post by tjezc☻ on Apr 9, 2015 13:32:17 GMT
Ramps, we need more ramps. I wish R* would add pitfalls too, so noobs that take the ramp too slow will be pierced by spikes
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wasmicwill
Member
"I'm not extending a helping hand, I'm giving you all the finger"
Posts: 49
Registered on: June 2014
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Post by wasmicwill on Apr 11, 2015 11:51:00 GMT
One thing that really gets to me is when there is a concrete barrier placed head-on on the sidewalk of the exit to a blind corner. I advocate using them to stop excessive kerb boosting, but placing them on a tight and blind corner unfairly punishes those who run a fraction wide, especially when they're not used to the track.
As as for what makes a good one, I like the checkpoints to be placed sensibly so new racers do not have to second guess where the track is going next. I like to have one or two high speed corners that add to the thrill, but I also do not think hairpins should be obligatory. If you can get one in where there is plenty of warning a pileup can be avoided then that's grest, but I don't care for overly tight ones. Even the tightest one in F1 (Monaco) is just about gentle enough to hug the inside line.
Track philosophy can never be definitive as in GTA you have to use the set roads. The most important thing is to use the public roads to their potential - there ARE good chicanes and hairpins out there and you don't need to create your own where there isn't one. Props should be used to prevent kerb boosting and to cover hazards.
**EDIT** Ideally the lap time should be between 1-2 mins unless it is an endurance track with longer straights.
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