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Post by CHILLI on Jun 8, 2015 10:27:37 GMT
Just a question CHILLI, the spoiler effect also depends on where does it extend to, as per example, the Massacro's GT Wing makes the "boundary box" taller, moving the CoG up, producing more body roll, and the Feltzer's makes it longer, and moves the CoG to the back, right? About the wheels, I'm sure both High-Ends, Sports and SUVs have exactly the same amount of tire wall, one thing I've noticed is the tire threads are different (same goes to Tuner, Muscle and Lowrider). I don't really care about these effects as I only use what I think looks the best, but, Shaggy, during F1 practice, said to me the Inferno rims under High-End feel different than the Cheetah R rims, under the same category. Is there any fundament to this? Also, you said upgrading from stock to any type of custom wheels it's indeed an upgrade to the handling, but, let's take the Rebel as an example, its stock rims have a large tire wall, but do they feel tougher than offroads? I tried to change to offroads on the Rebel once, but due to it's ground clearance the effect of the tire wall isn't that much noticeable. This is just messing with my OCD so much, I want to have some explanation CoG: Yep you got it right. I think there's an exception to spoilers that attach to the boot/trunk though, as they can break off. Last time I checked breakable parts dont change the CoG. Wheels: If the wheels are made of carbon fibre then maybe... The game claims that "a carbon roof lowers the centre of mass" so maybe all carbon parts weigh less? I havent noticed anything personally, and I used to slap on every single carbon part there was some time back (not the carbon wheels though. dem b expensive yo). Stock offroads vs custom offroads: As far as I remember some of the offroad cars still have crap suspension travel. The Rebel & Merryweather Mesa handle terribly over bumpy terrain compared to, for example, the Sandking which just coasts over most of it all. That said I think the tyrewall size of the stock wheels still matter, because I keep getting the impression that the stock wheels of the Sabre Turbo go over sidewalks a little better than the Muscle equivalent (which has a slightly smaller tyrewall). But the worse traction makes it hard to check properly as low traction makes it a lot easier to go over bad terrain (less risk of hitting a bump, the wheel grabs onto it and flings the car in either direction).
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Post by shinx aka MyComingBack on Jun 9, 2015 5:52:07 GMT
I saw Gunits newest video in which he said, that spoilers have an individual effect to the car, like more understeer or oversteer etc.
And another myth I heard was, that bullet proof tires increase the weight and decrease the traction.
Let me know what you guys think about that
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Twilicane
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Post by Twilicane on Jun 9, 2015 6:43:30 GMT
The biggest Zentorno spoiler makes it take longer to flip over the car if you're upside down, that's all I know thanks to Trowa
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katenhond2010
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Mainly racing on GT sport or talking about F1 on slack
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Post by katenhond2010 on Jun 9, 2015 8:00:51 GMT
I think you should not worry about Shaggy's video. If differend customisations change the car performance it's probarbly unintented by Rockstar, the change of weight and center of gravity is a very legit option. Anyway, because it's probarbly unintended and because it took shaggy thousends hours of racing before noticing, I think the changes are so super small that there's no reason to worry at all.
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Post by OpalescentFalcon on Jun 9, 2015 12:59:45 GMT
The bullet proof tire thing is a myth as far as I know but the different spoilers do change the handling characteristics. However the gain in time is very minimal. So minimal that people may find different spoilers to be faster because they have different driving styles or feel more comfortable with that spoiler. Chilli made a post about this: nodo.freeforums.net/thread/394/game-mechanic-explanation-technical-terms
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Post by Trowa on Jun 9, 2015 13:21:43 GMT
The bullet proof tire thing is a myth as far as I know but the different spoilers do change the handling characteristics. However the gain in time is very minimal. So minimal that people may find different spoilers to be faster because they have different driving styles or feel more comfortable with that spoiler. Chilli made a post about this: nodo.freeforums.net/thread/394/game-mechanic-explanation-technical-termsCould probabaly merge this thread into that one since shaggys entire video is based on that thread to begin with. Chili was the one who figured it out, not Shaggy. Pretty sure Shaggy linked that thread in his description actually.
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Post by Trowa on Jun 9, 2015 13:24:20 GMT
The biggest Zentorno spoiler makes it take longer to flip over the car if you're upside down, that's all I know thanks to Trowa Its not just that car but that one annoyed the fuck out of me and I was certainly most vocal about it early on. The spoilers change the hitboxes on all the cars so rediculous GT Wings in general are something I personally stray away from because they always snag on poles and signs for me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 14:01:21 GMT
Sometimes I feel like Shaggy has done everything there is to do with GTA racing so sometimes, in an attempt to find the slightest thing he hasn't covered before - he comes up with things like "high end tires on super cars make them respond more naturally to bumps" and "tiny differences in spoiler options"
Just my opinion but I think it's confirmation bias, if you go testing long enough with a goal in mind, you'll eventually focus on everything that confirms what you're trying to prove.
99.9999% of GTA racers won't notice these things - it's only when you've done thousands upon thousands of races, done tens of thousands of hotlaps, countless hours of testing cars and months and years of investigation into car characteristics that any of these things become worth bothering about. When you've covered every aspect of GTA racing as thoroughly as Shaggy (and I have nothing but respect for him and love his videos), you have to go looking for tiny, insignificant details that won't make a difference to the vast majority of racers.
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Post by Trowa on Jun 9, 2015 14:38:49 GMT
Sometimes I feel like Shaggy has done everything there is to do with GTA racing so sometimes, in an attempt to find the slightest thing he hasn't covered before - he comes up with things like "high end tires on super cars make them respond more naturally to bumps" and "tiny differences in spoiler options" Just my opinion but I think it's confirmation bias, if you go testing long enough with a goal in mind, you'll eventually focus on everything that confirms what you're trying to prove. 99.9999% of GTA racers won't notice these things - it's only when you've done thousands upon thousands of races, done tens of thousands of hotlaps, countless hours of testing cars and months and years of investigation into car characteristics that any of these things become worth bothering about. When you've covered every aspect of GTA racing as thoroughly as Shaggy (and I have nothing but respect for him and love his videos), you have to go looking for tiny, insignificant details that won't make a difference to the vast majority of racers. There is always more to learn. Some people are content with knowing the basics. Others want the full story, the back story, the index and the glossary too. These sorts of threads and videos are for the latter.
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Post by Merphos on Jun 9, 2015 16:01:08 GMT
The bullet proof tire thing is a myth as far as I know but the different spoilers do change the handling characteristics. However the gain in time is very minimal. So minimal that people may find different spoilers to be faster because they have different driving styles or feel more comfortable with that spoiler. Chilli made a post about this: nodo.freeforums.net/thread/394/game-mechanic-explanation-technical-termsCould probabaly merge this thread into that one since shaggys entire video is based on that thread to begin with. Chili was the one who figured it out, not Shaggy. Pretty sure Shaggy linked that thread in his description actually. He only started testing it when I told him in a party chat that the spoilers on the Zentorno make a difference to the car handling (while he was hotlapping CC). That was where he first heard about it. His initial response was "Really? Where's the proof?". I just told him to try it out for himself, and he soon realized. I noticed this characteristic of the game several months ago while testing different spoilers of the Zentorno. I shared this information with a few people, some said they noticed a difference and others said they did not. It is still highly subjective but for me a noticeable difference is certainly there for different spoilers on some cars.
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Post by Trowa on Jun 9, 2015 16:02:27 GMT
Could probabaly merge this thread into that one since shaggys entire video is based on that thread to begin with. Chili was the one who figured it out, not Shaggy. Pretty sure Shaggy linked that thread in his description actually. He only started testing it when I told him in a party chat that the spoilers on the Zentorno make a difference to the car handling (while he was hotlapping CC). That was where he first heard about it. His initial response was "Really? Where's the proof?". I just told him to try it out for himself, and he soon realized. I noticed this characteristic of the game several months ago while testing different spoilers of the Zentorno. I shared this information with a few people, some said they noticed a difference and others said they did not. It is still highly subjective but for me a noticeable difference is certainly there for different spoilers on some cars. ok
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Post by KoBo_043 on Jun 10, 2015 9:54:57 GMT
I had a short talk about this with marklyell the other day. Conclusion was for people who aren't very consistent (like me) the difference is neglectable. Like Broughy1322's testing for example. The difference between some cars (in terms of the laptimes) is sometimes only .3 of a second. I can't even get .3 of a second lapdifference with the same car if I race 100 laps. Not saying the difference in spoilers isn't there, I personally just don't notice it.
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Post by endersai on Jun 11, 2015 1:40:34 GMT
Chili, maybe I can get your input here. I suspect from reading this that the tyres I have - tuners - might be perfect but the GT wing is causing my main issue - namely, chronic understeer. I was racing with Ivolen, iDoXgaming and Sabertoothwolf last night and whilst I could pass their Elegies and Jesters on the straight, I'd end up shaving so much speed to take corners (northern loop, cheetah GP) that over the course of the race I'd finish 30s down. Conversely, my street Massacro (pictures of both are here: prod.hosted.cloud.rockstargames.com/ugc/gta5photo/Awy-xtlyU0OZRUnFgAJzfQ_0_0.jpg) has a low profile spoiler and high end wheels and tends to turn in when I want it to - however, I have not raced it in some time. In short, would I benefit from scaling the racecar wing one one level in terms of having the car turn in when I want it to, or is it unlikely to make an impact?
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konchy
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Post by konchy on Jun 19, 2015 13:48:16 GMT
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Post by CHILLI on Jun 21, 2015 15:24:32 GMT
Just my opinion but I think it's confirmation bias, if you go testing long enough with a goal in mind, you'll eventually focus on everything that confirms what you're trying to prove. Fair point. Though as I mentioned about my testing I couldnt tell if the different spoilers on the Comet made any difference or if whatever difference I noticed is placebo/human error. It is very much a thing on the Feltzer though. I've been rocking the GT Wing park bench since day 1 and during my test runs with that car I figured out why it oversteers as often as it does, and likewise why the rear soaks bumps so well. Like I believe Clarkson said on Top Gear about Porsche being rear-engined "It's like throwing a sledgehammer with the handle first". Meaning that you get tons of understeer and then BAM oversteer bonanza. Incidentally I have always used the small spoilers on cars apart from the Feltzer, so these differences never occured to me until someone suggested it and I went to test for it. On cars with stiff suspension, use whatever I suppose. On cars with soft suspension, definitly check it out. Even on pretty rigid cars you might still notice a difference, though. This stuff is insignificant until you want to get the most out of all your cars wherever possible. Want to tweak a car towards understeer or not? Want a car to be loose or firm around corners? Want to feel every bump or coast over it all? People that want to fine tune their cars to this level will be interested in finding this stuff, and I'm certainly one of them. "But why would Rockstar ever put this effort into different spoilers?" etc. etc. Well, they did it to the different wheel types, didnt they? Who's to say they didnt make subtle, yet noticable, differences to other things? If someone suggests that "this" or "that" makes a difference and it sounds like a plausible theory that has yet to be tested, I'm not the kind of person to turn down their ideas unless I have already found out what's going on before hand. The reason I found the spoiler theory plausible was because of the fact that the hitbox of the car changes. That's our first indicator that it has a physical effect, so why not delve as deep as possible into it and see if anything more is going on? I have done enough testing to be 100% sure it is a thing, so I'll leave the rest up to you guys, the community, to play around with the ideas and findings. Note: I know that I'm using wrong terminology about spoilers in my first post summary. The correct explanation would be a weight shift, not grip balance. But I figured that would make more sense to people less familiar with the terms used. It's a very common thing in modern physics engines to evaluate the volume size and mass of an object and approximate a correct Center of Mass. Since the CoM is specificed in the handling data, testing would point out that this weight shift is done right after loading the handling data.
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