Tsupernami
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Post by Tsupernami on Mar 30, 2017 13:11:27 GMT
Oh and I thought I might add, that I thought you were a moron if and only if you used your vote as a protest vote. That is utterly stupid, I don't think I need to justify why I said it.
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drknut
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Post by drknut on Mar 30, 2017 13:12:50 GMT
Idgaf anymore to be honest, just hope Mother Teresa negotiates something decent. ....aaaand that right there is another thing that's going terribly bad in nowadays politics. People are too comfy behind their computers and expect a like on Facebook to get them the politics they want. And if life doesn't live up to those crooked expectations then it's those elitists not listening to the people. If you want the world to change and have opinions about it, you need to do something about it.
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Hystery
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Post by Hystery on Mar 30, 2017 13:37:26 GMT
The EU as it stands now is just a parliament full of people that are voting laws about plenty of things where we have no right to say anything whatsoever. This sentence perfectly sums up what's most prominently wrong about the EU: the perception of the people. Are you aware that you voted (or more likely had a chance to vote) that very parliament you are accusing of autocratic rule? Oh I'm aware of that. The candidate I voted for is also probably one of the most assiduous when it comes to attendance to the parliament sessions and votes. The thing is, he embodies perfectly what I'm fighting for, but he's a minority along with his foreign colleagues. So no matter what, they pass laws and bills I dislike or I'm heavily against. Therefore I feel like I'm just ignored and left powerless. The perception of the people is very, very important for a society to work properly. Make them feel like they're in control, even just a little, of their fate, and they'll be happy. Make them feel like they're ignored, left powerless in front of the strengths that hold the power, and they'll be cautious at best, rebellious at worst. And to be perfectly honest, I'm less accusing of autocratic ruling, and more of oligarchic ruling.
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double_s92
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Post by double_s92 on Mar 30, 2017 13:39:37 GMT
Idgaf anymore to be honest, just hope Mother Teresa negotiates something decent. ....aaaand that right there is another thing that's going terribly bad in nowadays politics. People are too comfy behind their computers and expect a like on Facebook to get them the politics they want. And if life doesn't live up to those crooked expectations then it's those elitists not listening to the people. If you want the world to change and have opinions about it, you need to do something about it. Not sure what these "somethings" are. I voted to remain, more people voted to leave....now we wait to see what happens?
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drknut
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Post by drknut on Mar 30, 2017 14:20:23 GMT
Oh I'm aware of that. The candidate I voted for is also probably one of the most assiduous when it comes to attendance to the parliament sessions and votes. The thing is, he embodies perfectly what I'm fighting for, but he's a minority along with his foreign colleagues. So no matter what, they pass laws and bills I dislike or I'm heavily against. Therefore I feel like I'm just ignored and left powerless. But you nonetheless made a statement indicating the opposite. Being part of a political minority is still very democratic process. And of course the bigger the voting population, the less chances are a single voice is getting heard. But that doesn't mean that everybody for themselves is a good alternative strategy. A federalistic government structure with processes and levels from global to local (and the other way around, of course) is IMO still the best way to go. However, I do agree that the single member states (i.e. the heads of them) have too much power in the EU via the tool of the European Council. I think the EU needs to give more power to the European Parliament, rather than the head of member states. However, a lot of people would disagree with me there. The perception of the people is very, very important for a society to work properly. Make them feel like they're in control, even just a little, of their fate, and they'll be happy. Make them feel like they're ignored, left powerless in front of the strengths that hold the power, and they'll be cautious at best, rebellious at worst. So you do agree that a major issue is perception? Thing is, that's not a unidirectional thing. Being allowed to vote comes with the moral responsibility to inform oneself and make informed decisions accordingly. I see a lot of slacking in these regards. Most people enjoying EU bashing aren't even capable to describe the democratic framework and structures it is based on or are aware what are European Parliament, Commission or Council doing at all. And to be perfectly honest, I'm less accusing of autocratic ruling, and more of oligarchic ruling. Touché! ....aaaand that right there is another thing that's going terribly bad in nowadays politics. People are too comfy behind their computers and expect a like on Facebook to get them the politics they want. And if life doesn't live up to those crooked expectations then it's those elitists not listening to the people. If you want the world to change and have opinions about it, you need to do something about it. Not sure what these "somethings" are. I voted to remain, more people voted to leave....now we wait to see what happens? There's plenty. Because even if people have voted to leave, no one had decided how to leave at that point. Deciding to leave was just the start (and a dubious one, if I may add), now it's all about the how. And that's probably way more important than the yes/no decision on wether to leave. So getting involved now is still a very good idea. And there are plenty of possibilities. E.g. participate in protest marches like yesterday in Cambridge or this week in London (a 100k people on the street and nearly no media coverage, quite a shame).. Or write to your MP (and maybe MEP) with your concerns about triggering article 50 without a clear plan on what to replace the EU with. Or note your protest in other ways. If you feel you should have a final say, join some of the organisations that are already preparing for a political move that would install a (this time legally binding and conclusive) referendum/vote on the final EU exit contract. Let the politicians come up with a plan and once there is a clear plan, vote to accept it or not in the end sounds like a good idea to me. There's organisations covering all aspects of Brexit-related politics popping up like mushrooms on a sunny autumn day after the rain right now. Get invovled in one you like. I personally like "Scientists for the EU". But as a non-british EU National that doesn't any more live on the island since shortly before the referendum, my actions as well as interest in investing into the issue are somehow limited. But if you feel it's your future that's affected (or even at stake), it's probably a good idea to get involved in one way or another. (edit) ...and that's actually true and crucial irrespectively of whether you actually voted remain or leave.
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Tsupernami
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Post by Tsupernami on Mar 30, 2017 16:25:37 GMT
The media wouldn't cover it because they benefit from leaving the EU.
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Theign
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Post by Theign on Mar 30, 2017 18:01:59 GMT
Lets not forget the "Why do people in (insert country A) have the right to tell me what I can or can not do here in (Insert country B)?" argument.
Welcome to Democracy. That is how Democracy works.
The politicians from other parts of the EU have the right to have a say in legal matters in your part of the EU, for exactly the same reason that politicians from England have the right to have a say in legal matters in Scotland, for exactly the same reason politicians from the South of England have a right to have the say in legal matters in the North of England, for exactly the same reason politicians from the Manchester have a right to have the say in legal matters in the York, for exactly the same reason politicians from York have a right to have the say in legal matters in the some tiny little village 5 miles outside York.
We all had the chance to vote for our European representative. Most of us didn't bother. (This is why Nigel "I'll only bother to show up the bare minimum amount of times I have to to be able to still collect my wage from the EU while bitching that the EU costs the tax payer too much" Farage was an MEP) I mean seriously. Even if you are anti EU, SURELY you can see that voting in a guy who at best will do everything he can to make the EU fail is bad for you?
Back on track tho, This is a major issue that people fail to grasp about Democracy. "Our country doesn't want that, so why should WE have to do that?" "Britain didn't vote for that EU decision, so why should we have to put up with it?" "Scotland didn't vote to leave the EU, so why should we have to leave?" "My Constituency didn't vote for the Conservitives, so why should we have to be ruled by them?" "Sure, my Constituency voted conservative, but I voted labor, so why should I obey the new laws the conservatives put in?"
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