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Post by jt33396 on Jul 28, 2016 0:04:47 GMT
Okay I know everyone likes to shit on B'a track making skills (or lack there of Kappa) but I want to see what are the issues people have with Broughy's tracks, and how they can be repaired with content creator 2.0 and its new props. Who knows maybe he'll read this and his tracks can be improved upon by us as well as what he thinks they need.
Now personally I like most of his tracks, and I have no track building skills anyways, and can't find flaws in even my own creations, so let's see what everyone else's general gripes are about his tracks. I'll add everyone's complaints once I get to a proper computer. Mobile slack really sucks.
Blaine County 24H
Olympic Grand Prix
The North Loop
Los Santos Grand Prix
RON Raceway
I'm assuming that CCGP will stay exactly the same for testing purposes.
I'm also assuming all tracks will have a proper starting grid already placed and improved pitlanes and that problem polls will be removed
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gears0nfire
Member
I drive so hard and go so fast, but in the bend, it doesn't even matter.
Posts: 334
Registered on: January 2016
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Post by gears0nfire on Jul 28, 2016 1:40:07 GMT
His perversion with concrete barriers.
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Post by hotwheelsepic on Jul 28, 2016 1:40:23 GMT
To fix the north loop delete it.
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DV8R
Member
"Without Deviation, Progress is not Possible."
Posts: 1,339
Registered on: January 2015
Steam: DV8R
Social Club: DV8Rx.
Discord: DV8R#1337
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Post by DV8R on Jul 28, 2016 1:43:05 GMT
I second what hotwheels says, plus the same with RONR.
You can't polish a turd, can't really make the tracks better. No matter how much people try. Better just to create whole new tracks
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Post by FriendlyBaron on Jul 28, 2016 4:05:47 GMT
He already has said he is considering updating the tracks "if the props are good", which they do seem to be, so I'd expect an update of them.
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Post by hotwheelsepic on Jul 28, 2016 4:52:01 GMT
I second what hotwheels says Although I do want NL to burn, it was more of a joke lol.
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Post by Renegade1911 on Jul 28, 2016 6:44:45 GMT
I second what hotwheels says Although I do want NL to burn, it was more of a joke lol. U wot m8? Just remember guys, Broughy's tracks were made in a different time, when they were one of the few raceable tracks, cuz the community creations were mostly crap.
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Post by Jackimo on Jul 28, 2016 7:06:05 GMT
Although I do want NL to burn, it was more of a joke lol. U wot m8? Just remember guys, Broughy's tracks were made in a different time, when they were one of the few raceable tracks, cuz the community creations were mostly crap. For LSGP and North Loop that's absolutely true. But RON and Olympic Grand Prix should be held to modern standards, as they all should be. Other creators have kept their tracks with the times so I see no reason why Broughy should be any different. I don't see why it's taken him this long to update them so his tracks deserve all the criticism you would expect for any other track.
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Post by Nick420Guy on Jul 28, 2016 7:39:54 GMT
His perversion with concrete barriers. His perversion with concrete barriers hidden in bushes. LOL Blaine County 24H cough cough. Fixed that for you! I don't mind the barriers I can see, but why put them in bushes where they are all but invisible. At least use something a little taller so we can see where the end of it is.
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Post by hotwheelsepic on Jul 28, 2016 11:54:26 GMT
I think he actualy needs barriers on NL, WAIT, BEFORE YOU START RIOTING MY EXISTANCE, HEAR ME OUT. I think he needs barriers where you will miss the checkpoint, because I cant tell you how many times I've missed a checkpoint on the track because the track was just like "fok u m8". So broughey, when you dont read this, dont put apex bariers from the grass to the fence, just ones that help people not miss checkpoints.
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scenic
Member
Posts: 126
Registered on: February 2016
Social Club: Scenic_route
Discord: scenic_route#6404
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Post by scenic on Jul 28, 2016 16:17:25 GMT
I certainly have an opinion on Broughy's tracks.
Checkpoint placement
Blaine 24h, checkpoints placement is an issue. On most tracks the CP stands smack in the apex, allowing you to aim for the CP and use it as a turn in marker. On Blaine 24h thouh, you have to look at the road, rather than checkpoint. Which may sound like a childish stupid complaint, but aside from breaking a game wide pattern, there are visibility issues. Typically a grey low-wiz barrier functions as the turn-in marker, and I cannot see them well. The red/white tirestacks (sticky satan) are high wiz, but the grey concrete not so much. In any conditions not noon and clear weather, these visibility issue compound greatly. At night I am effectively blind as a bat, and it's not just due to my eyesight, it's the graphics and monitor setup (I have two monitors, on one I can well at night-time races, on the other the CPs stand out like supernovas and I cannot see anything behind or in their close vicinity). I think only a minority suffers from this problem, most seems unaffected by the time-of-day on races, but Broughy's Blaine 24 makes this problem worse for those of us with low visibility. At night I have to plan, brake and start the turn, before I see the turn-in marker. (this is of course worse on the city tracks, where poles, signs and other objects tend to get in the way). Making a track technical and corners difficult is one thing, doing so by making it difficult to see clearly is scumbaggery of the highest order.
Hidden barriers
Also some of the barriers are outright hidden in bushes, which is just fucking irritating. What could possibly be the justification for hiding a barrier, except for taking joy in that people will crash into them? The same goes for any obstacle that is on the racing line in a blind corner. Having to memorize where surprise "barriers" are placed is just awful. Sometimes it can't be helped, some corners are blind in their nature, and maybe there is a non-removable obstacle on the racing line, well so be it, but making it on purpose is just sinking low.
Layout, 90-degree turns
The third critisism I have with Broughy's tracks is the obsession with tight 90-degree turns. This applies to the Sandy Shores section of Blaine 24h and Los Santos GP. Typically we have tight 90 degree turns, with a low-wiz barrier placed on the inside, and the fastest way to negotiate the corner is to stick your cars as close to the barrier as possible. For me this just feels like hairpin after hairpin after hairpin, so you carry little speed with you through a section, every corner is a reset, and the racing line is tight and narrow. Maybe that is a good basis for defensive contact racing where a slow car/driver can hold up a faster one, but for me it just sucks the fun out of racing. Does anyone ever come up the Sandy Shores section of Blaine 24h and think to themselves "oh yeah, here comes the fun section, woohoo!"? Add to that the aforementioned visibility issues, and it's not all happiness.
I do like The North Loop, excellent selection of fun and varied corners, and nothing has been added to fuck it up. I do not like the low-wiz barriers along the guard rail (on the "On-the-Goh-corner" by the gas station), I assume they are put there to prevent certain cars from simply grinding the turn at full speed. Ok, can understand that, but at least make it easily visible, and not a surprise to someone familiar with that turn but no that track. This is a general sentiment, whenever using a section well known from a R* track, and you place a fucking obstacle/barrier in the traditional racing line, make it highly visible and clear. Not a big deal if doing an event and people practice before a 25+ minute race, but when it comes up as an entry in a PL, it will take people by surprise. Another example on this would be the On-the-Goh version called "On the Yarn", where the creator has removed the original props for no reason, and thereby removing established braking markers, and on the final downhill section where you jump across the power pole, there is a hidden obstacle causing you will hit. This is irritating and earns an automated dislike vote from me. Ok, if you want to force a new racing line on an established corner, that is fine, but don't be a sneaky c*nt about it!
Another example of stupid, irritating, excrement-of-satan barriers to force people along a new narrower racing line, is Cutting Coroners vs. CC GP and other Nodo implementations. After the park down to the 90-degree turn by the drain, the best line is on the left sidewalk, giving you better angle to keep more speed through the right hander. Making a custom track blocking this path with a low wiz barrier is my definition of aids.
I also find Los Santos GP to be quite good, nice track for a 6-10 minute race (no more!) He has blocked off the sidewalk after the left-hander (after the downhill straight), for which I can see no meaningful reason. Perhaps a narrow racing line makes it more viable for a slow car to block a faster one, using "defensive racecraft", so GTA racing can resemble F1 racing, which is bascially just a prosession of cars where passing is exceedingly difficult.
I think most of my criticism is philosophical rather than a practical prop suitability discussion. I like fast flowing tracks made for supers, where a wide track and multiple racing lines is necessary, and my favorite track creators are Kloden, Kasumi, Low-life etc. And I enjoy many R* tracks. I enjoy tracks where you can miss a turn somewhat and maybe lose a second and/or be out of posision for the next one, rather than crashing into a barrier and losing 10 seconds. I realize it's different if you plan to get 30 guys and lap around in golf carts. Panic Stations is a brilliant R* track, where you essentially needs to carry your speed across some quite technical corners, ie. little margin for error. It is just great fun to do a good lap on the fastest racing line, brushing poles and obstacles, negotiating several jumps, chasing curbs all while keeping the t20 in overdrive. Only 2-3 hard braking spots, the rest just mild lifts and positioning, on a ~2 minute lap.
EDIT: Just wanted to make clear that even if Blaine 24h and LSGP do not score highly with my personal preferences, I certainly appreciate that they are very popular and seemingly well-suited tracks for racing with emphasis on overtaking and defending, rather than just setting a god lap time and enjoying the drive, which is my thing. I want the smooth flow and get in the zone, not fight for position.
Speaking of tracks, I assume most have tried the new stunt track Mount Chiliad? It has an absolutely amazing downhill section weaving through mountain sides, exhibiting variation on camber, visibility and turning radius. This bodes well for the future, even if we may be limited to 2 lane roads width-wise. There is also need for tracks made for glitchy RE7Bs.
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Post by endersai on Jul 28, 2016 23:45:27 GMT
I love Blaine 24h.
Haters.
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Post by jt33396 on Jul 29, 2016 19:06:31 GMT
I love Blaine 24h. Haters. I think BC24H is perfect tbh. I would propose adding a track over the railroad before the long straight, since it unsettles some cars
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Prutoog
Member
If you no longer go for a gap that doesn't exist. You're no longer a nodo playlist driver!
Posts: 570
Registered on: June 2015
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Post by Prutoog on Jul 29, 2016 20:47:45 GMT
RONR needs scenery. The biggest reason why this track is so boring for endurances (need I mention MCEC Vans round) is because apart from racing 70% of it in your lonesome, you are staring at an endlessly empty screen.
That is btw the most common problem for airport tracks that try to use the entire airport.
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Post by jt33396 on Jul 29, 2016 21:39:23 GMT
I also think that second hairpin on LSGP, you know which one it is, has to go. It's utter garbage imo. He can put some track on there to make the corner more defined or even make a new corner out of it
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