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Post by hotwheelsepic on Sept 27, 2016 20:47:38 GMT
Good point. But the difference is that the U.S. had more problems than a few false killings. Peoples houses being taken and raided legaly, having to pay more taxes, limiting the exploration of their country and more. The U.S. back then had problems because of another country ruling it. And before you bring it up, no, I don't think that the government forcing natives out of their land was a great idea. But back to the point of being terroristic, if you had a bunch of foreign military men paroling your country, would you appreciate it?OK, so I'm not sure if this is actually hitting home for you. I know the US doesn't do irony - your national character is far too optimistic for the culturally British cynicism that affects the Anglosphere. So maybe you don't appreciate the irony inherent in the bolded sentence.
Because basically, what you're saying is, if you had people infringing on your rights. That's fundamentally what the Independence war was about; no taxation without representation is not a try for natural justice, it's that tax can't be levied on territories not represented in parliament. So when systemic inequalities exist and there is no recognition of them, much less any avenue to recourse, it's defensible in your view for people to resort to violence and the like?
This is not atypical, mind you. History is littered with people, tired of being repressed, rising up. Vladimir Illych Ulyanov, aka Lenin, wrote extensively on this point.
But you draw the line at affording people, who aren't white (because in America, rights are colour-based), the same legitimacy. Which is inherently racist, whether you acknowledge it or not.
Now, the Guardian - or Granuaid, for our UK friends - has been tracking police deaths in America: www.theguardian.com/us-news/series/counted-us-police-killings
It contains a database for searching people killed by police, as well as analysis of the over-militarisation of US police (which enhances rather that deflates conflict), the culture of permissiveness that allows it, and more.
There's also the UN Special Rapporteur into the Freedom of Assembly's recent findings, which highlight systemic inequality towards blacks: freeassembly.net/news/usa-statement/
If you think it's false statistics, you're utterly deaf to what's happening and that's almost certainly because of the colour of the people calling out injustices.
You know what? Fine. The way the americans seperated from the british was wrong. But on the side of rights being color based (also if you bring up the spelling of "color", fuck you) is for the most part false. You cant deny that our president is black, can you? You can say all you want about Obama (no problem if you dont like him) but you cant deny that he is not white. The way you are saying things make it seem like black people have it worse than they did in the 40's. There is undoubtedly racism, but not to that extreme of an extent. Its not like because i'm half black, I cant walk into a hospital and get treated. Also can we please stop bringing the UK pride (yes endersai, I know you are australian) into this? America can be a funny punchline, but in all seriousness, its not like we are the worst, most racist, most corrupt country out there.
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Post by hotwheelsepic on Sept 27, 2016 20:50:02 GMT
Ah. I see. It happened once, thus it happens every time. Maybe you should try reading the wall of text. Ah. I see. Banning guns in one country works there, it works everywhere.
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Post by endersai on Sept 27, 2016 22:14:54 GMT
Firstly, we didn't ban guns. We restricted access to classes of firearms that can be used in a mass shooting. Before the bans, one of the worst mass shootings in history. And plenty of smaller ones. After the ban - in 1996 - no mass shootings. But in America, there's just no way to prevent gun violence, says the only nation where this routinely happens. Now you suggest Mr Obama's racial heritage in a way that infers it proves a point. I remember when he was elected; post-racial America was declared. But, I mean, as soon as POTUS gets a twitter account and straight away, racist Americans took to Twitter to call him a monkey, the n-word, and to get back in his cage. And then there's the orange shit-gibbon imbecile that secured the GOP nomination, running an emphatically racist "birther" campaign that basically expressed incredulity that a black man could actually be American and President. So, no, that means nothing. If anything, the Republican desire to put this "uppity n-word" back in his place lead to historic acts of petulance, like refusing to replace thankfully-dead-and-I-hope-it-was-painful Scalia on the Supreme Court, and Government shutdowns. All because he's black. If a white president was in office, you'd better believe there'd have been no shutdown, and no vacancy on the court. And as for your point about the 1940s - it's not that. It's that white Americans assumed that by saying "racism is over now" thanks to the civil rights movement and the end of segregation laws, that racism was over. But the whole notion of systemic racism is that racism is entrenched in every layer of society, so merely saying it's over doesn't make it over. You'd do well to actually listen to black Americans on this, you know.
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Post by hotwheelsepic on Sept 28, 2016 0:26:15 GMT
Firstly, we didn't ban guns. We restricted access to classes of firearms that can be used in a mass shooting. Before the bans, one of the worst mass shootings in history. And plenty of smaller ones. After the ban - in 1996 - no mass shootings. But in America, there's just no way to prevent gun violence, says the only nation where this routinely happens. Now you suggest Mr Obama's racial heritage in a way that infers it proves a point. I remember when he was elected; post-racial America was declared. But, I mean, as soon as POTUS gets a twitter account and straight away, racist Americans took to Twitter to call him a monkey, the n-word, and to get back in his cage. And then there's the orange shit-gibbon imbecile that secured the GOP nomination, running an emphatically racist "birther" campaign that basically expressed incredulity that a black man could actually be American and President. So, no, that means nothing. If anything, the Republican desire to put this "uppity n-word" back in his place lead to historic acts of petulance, like refusing to replace thankfully-dead-and-I-hope-it-was-painful Scalia on the Supreme Court, and Government shutdowns. All because he's black. If a white president was in office, you'd better believe there'd have been no shutdown, and no vacancy on the court. And as for your point about the 1940s - it's not that. It's that white Americans assumed that by saying "racism is over now" thanks to the civil rights movement and the end of segregation laws, that racism was over. But the whole notion of systemic racism is that racism is entrenched in every layer of society, so merely saying it's over doesn't make it over. You'd do well to actually listen to black Americans on this, you know. I've said this many times, but just so I get my point across: THERE IS STILL RACISM IN THE UNITED STATES, I'M NOT DENYING THAT. Mentioning that obama was just to prove the point about the fact that the government isnt fully color based, I was not anything about how the citizens responed. (the original statment saying that "in america, rights are color based" was pretty vague, at least to me.)
Also on the point of talking to black Americans, they agree that racism is not completely over, but they do agree that the black lives matter stuff in Charlotte is complete bullshit.
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Theign
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Post by Theign on Sept 28, 2016 0:57:45 GMT
Ah. I see. It happened once, thus it happens every time. Maybe you should try reading the wall of text. Ah. I see. Banning guns in one country works there, it works everywhere. No. But heavily restricting it works here, and all across Europe, and most nations across the globe. In nations with heavy restrictions there are very low rates of gun crime. In America where there are virtually no restrictions there are countless gun crimes and frequent mass shootings. But hey. When you Outlaw guns everyone's going to get shot. I use the UK as an example because i live here so i have some knowledge of how things are here. Doesn't mean we are the only country that restricts guns and benefits.
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Post by thedelgadic1 on Sept 28, 2016 1:08:06 GMT
Firstly, we didn't ban guns. We restricted access to classes of firearms that can be used in a mass shooting. Before the bans, one of the worst mass shootings in history. And plenty of smaller ones. After the ban - in 1996 - no mass shootings. But in America, there's just no way to prevent gun violence, says the only nation where this routinely happens. Now you suggest Mr Obama's racial heritage in a way that infers it proves a point. I remember when he was elected; post-racial America was declared. But, I mean, as soon as POTUS gets a twitter account and straight away, racist Americans took to Twitter to call him a monkey, the n-word, and to get back in his cage. And then there's the orange shit-gibbon imbecile that secured the GOP nomination, running an emphatically racist "birther" campaign that basically expressed incredulity that a black man could actually be American and President. So, no, that means nothing. If anything, the Republican desire to put this "uppity n-word" back in his place lead to historic acts of petulance, like refusing to replace thankfully-dead-and-I-hope-it-was-painful Scalia on the Supreme Court, and Government shutdowns. All because he's black. If a white president was in office, you'd better believe there'd have been no shutdown, and no vacancy on the court. And as for your point about the 1940s - it's not that. It's that white Americans assumed that by saying "racism is over now" thanks to the civil rights movement and the end of segregation laws, that racism was over. But the whole notion of systemic racism is that racism is entrenched in every layer of society, so merely saying it's over doesn't make it over. You'd do well to actually listen to black Americans on this, you know. More shootings happen with handguns than what your talking about(presumably ars). 6371 out of 8855. So it's racist if obama's birthplace is called into question, but not if Ted Cruz's birthplace is called into question? Also how do you know it was Americans posting about how Obama is a n1gger. It could have been Britain or Australlia or anywhere in the world. What about the supposed "systemic racism" against Mexicans and Blacks in America. People shout it from the roof tops all the time. My dad came from nothing. His father was illegal and now lives in Mexico, his brother was in and out of jail, and he was one of 5 children of a very poor family. He never finished high school. He dropped out to support his family. Instead of lying down and taking the shit cards he was dealt, he made something of himself. He learned a craft(semi truck mechanic), and worked his ass off to get himself out of where he once was. Not everyone was given a small loan of a million dollars like Mr. Trump, many started from the bottom of the lower class and worked very hard to get to the middle class. I have a hard time buying into this systemic racism that you are trying to sell.
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Post by hotwheelsepic on Sept 28, 2016 1:41:44 GMT
Ah. I see. Banning guns in one country works there, it works everywhere. No. But heavily restricting it works here, and all across Europe, and most nations across the globe. In nations with heavy restrictions there are very low rates of gun crime. In America where there are virtually no restrictions there are countless gun crimes and frequent mass shootings. But hey. When you Outlaw guns everyone's going to get shot. I use the UK as an example because i live here so i have some knowledge of how things are here. Doesn't mean we are the only country that restricts guns and benefits. Alright, fair enough. The way you worded some of your original posts made me think you thought banning guns everywhere would work. Thats about all I can say
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Post by endersai on Sept 28, 2016 2:25:36 GMT
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Post by thedelgadic1 on Sept 28, 2016 2:40:24 GMT
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Post by endersai on Sept 28, 2016 2:59:10 GMT
Working class bigotry. Surprising.
In any event the link I posted cited a number of studies. Being outside your particular echo chamber you elect to disregard it entirely. Understandable; you might learn something new. Couldn't have that, could we now?
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Post by endersai on Sept 28, 2016 3:08:33 GMT
Reports that another unarmed black man was shot in LA.
Probably a criminal, though, right?
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Post by FriendlyBaron on Sept 28, 2016 3:16:56 GMT
I don't mind allowing this discussion, but when you guys get personal with the attacks, it's not okay.
Don't call the other person stupid. Write out the explanation using your facts or don't bother posting at all.
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Theign
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Post by Theign on Sept 28, 2016 3:56:03 GMT
Yes. Black people also make up a disproportionately large percentage of the people living in poverty. Compare the statistics for black people from poverty stricken areas against white people from poverty stricken areas. You will find the statistics will be much closer. I would expect that Black people will still be represented disproportionately, because of a mix of racism, and disillusionment but still, it would be closer. Besides, that is hardly an argument against systematic racism. Yes. Saying that black people commit more crimes is the reason more get arrested would seem at a quick glance to show that racism is not the cause, but you have to ask why do more black people commit crimes in the first place? Could the cause be that systematic racism keeps them from improving their lot? There is no easy solution. If you were to magically remove racism from America tonight, make it so that everyone treated everyone purely based upon their worth as a human and not who their ancestors were, then ten years from now there would still be more blacks in prison, and the average wage of a black person would be lower than that of the whites, not because of race, but simply because they are socially and economically disadvantaged. To use a Nodo relevant metaphor, it would be like putting a black guy and a white guy in identical Feraris, then asking them to do a drag race while the black guy starts a quarter of a mile behind. (Of course, in time the black population will catch up with the whites, whereas the only way they win the drag race is if the white guy is a complete moron.) The problem at the moment is that some people have caught onto this and say "See? The black guy isn't winning because he's starting from further back." The thing is, its kinda hard to tell if that's the case, or if its because the black guys car has an engine out of a VW Beetle. All that said, all this press every time a black man gets shot by police doesn't exactly help matters, it just teaches black kids that if the police point a gun and shouts "Freeze" they should run. See, there are people saying all sorts of things about the people getting shot. "He was holding this" "He was holding that" "He was running away" "He wasn't running at the officer he was walking at him".... When was the last time they said "He stopped and put his hands up as told." When a cop points a gun at you. You do whatever the fuck they tell you too. Innocent or guilty, it doesn't matter, sort that shit out later. "Oh but he might plant some evidence on me." Realy? Then what the fuck makes you think a cop corrupt enough to do that isn't going to gladly shoot you if you run or talk back? Wall of texted again...
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Theign
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Post by Theign on Sept 28, 2016 3:59:11 GMT
No. But heavily restricting it works here, and all across Europe, and most nations across the globe. In nations with heavy restrictions there are very low rates of gun crime. In America where there are virtually no restrictions there are countless gun crimes and frequent mass shootings. But hey. When you Outlaw guns everyone's going to get shot. I use the UK as an example because i live here so i have some knowledge of how things are here. Doesn't mean we are the only country that restricts guns and benefits. Alright, fair enough. The way you worded some of your original posts made me think you thought banning guns everywhere would work. Thats about all I can say Yeah, would make me something of a hypocrite. We have a Shotgun in the Cellar. My father likes to go Clay Pigeon shooting from time to time.
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Post by thedelgadic1 on Sept 28, 2016 4:18:14 GMT
endersai just 4 days ago a homeless unarmed white man was killed by police. But it dosent matter he obviously had mental issues so his life is meaningless(sarcasm sarcasm)
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