Craig 9876
Member
If you're second, you're only the first in a long line of losers
Posts: 717
Registered on: May 2014
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Post by Craig 9876 on Nov 23, 2014 3:01:12 GMT
OP UPDATED WITH THE DIVISIONS. THEY WERE DRAWN TONIGHT WHEN SHAGGY WAS STREAMING! DIVISION 1 LOOKS FRIGHTENING BUT DIVISION 2 HAS SOME COMPETITION OF ITS OWN. LOOKING FORWARD TO IT FOLKS Does this mean signups are closed? If not, I'll be up for joining. We have 40 people now I think but you can be put down as a reserve if someone pulls out
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Post by vxwk on Nov 23, 2014 3:50:36 GMT
So in case you missed it - For Season 1 the top 10 racers from Div 2 go up to Div 1. The bottom 10 from Div 1 go down.Also rule 3 seems like a bitch, with the amount of problems with lag and lamposts falling when someone else missed it by like metre, why should they have to wait for that.
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fachuro
Member
Posts: 1,036
Registered on: September 2014
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Post by fachuro on Nov 23, 2014 10:47:44 GMT
Rules will be a bitch. I see a whole lot of drama coming your way here Craig... There's going to be so many claims of who did what you're going to have your hands full.
#3 - There will be false claims and people refusing to admit hitting posts #4 - There will be false claims and people refusing to admit running on curbs #6 - There will be massive discussions where people will claim anyone slower then them are "blocking"
#3 - Should be solved by track selection and normal racing rules (no weaving) #4 - Should be solved by normal racing rules. No weaving back and forth between lines, no moving in braking zones, etc... #6 - Should be clarified. A block is again, no weaving. Defending lines, braking early, etc is not blocking. That's following your line. Brake-checking is not braking early, brake-checking is braking in the middle of a straight for no reason. Other then weaving and brake-checking on straights it's always the overtaking drivers responsibility to keep an overtake clean.
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Post by Pundip on Nov 23, 2014 11:15:19 GMT
#6 - There will be massive discussions where people will claim anyone slower then them are "blocking" In the whole time I have been racing on PS3 as part of this crew, I can tell you right now that this has never happened. Yes, we've got some new members and guys from other crews in here but I highly doubt anything will have changed. In other news....Division 2 looks very very stacked to me! I can count around 10 drivers capable of winning or at least challenging for the top spot. Hopefully I will have a PS4 by the time you get on to Season 2.
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Post by OpalescentFalcon on Nov 23, 2014 13:39:41 GMT
Rules will be a bitch. I see a whole lot of drama coming your way here Craig... There's going to be so many claims of who did what you're going to have your hands full. #3 - There will be false claims and people refusing to admit hitting posts #4 - There will be false claims and people refusing to admit running on curbs #6 - There will be massive discussions where people will claim anyone slower then them are "blocking" #3 - Should be solved by track selection and normal racing rules (no weaving) #4 - Should be solved by normal racing rules. No weaving back and forth between lines, no moving in braking zones, etc... #6 - Should be clarified. A block is again, no weaving. Defending lines, braking early, etc is not blocking. That's following your line. Brake-checking is not braking early, brake-checking is braking in the middle of a straight for no reason. Other then weaving and brake-checking on straights it's always the overtaking drivers responsibility to keep an overtake clean. If everyone records the event there will be no false claims. Commissioners will be getting a lot of work. By normal racing rules i assume it is F1 rules. I have heard some people talk about inside line priority?
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fachuro
Member
Posts: 1,036
Registered on: September 2014
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Post by fachuro on Nov 23, 2014 14:11:10 GMT
Rules will be a bitch. I see a whole lot of drama coming your way here Craig... There's going to be so many claims of who did what you're going to have your hands full. #3 - There will be false claims and people refusing to admit hitting posts #4 - There will be false claims and people refusing to admit running on curbs #6 - There will be massive discussions where people will claim anyone slower then them are "blocking" #3 - Should be solved by track selection and normal racing rules (no weaving) #4 - Should be solved by normal racing rules. No weaving back and forth between lines, no moving in braking zones, etc... #6 - Should be clarified. A block is again, no weaving. Defending lines, braking early, etc is not blocking. That's following your line. Brake-checking is not braking early, brake-checking is braking in the middle of a straight for no reason. Other then weaving and brake-checking on straights it's always the overtaking drivers responsibility to keep an overtake clean. If everyone records the event there will be no false claims. Commissioners will be getting a lot of work. By normal racing rules i assume it is F1 rules. I have heard some people talk about inside line priority? It's 45 minutes and the buffer on the PS4 is 15 minutes, so that would require everyone to have other means of recording it. And even so you probably wont have everyone recording it if the PS4 had a 45 minute buffer. And it still doesn't change how sometimes different things happen on different screens as well, and you thus will have sort of a false claim from the guy behind, as the guy in front shouldn't be punished for a bad connection. Now, I agree regardless it would be good with as many people as possible recording as there will be incidents as a matter of discussion at any racing event, regardless of the rules. But I don't see the point of adding a bunch of rules that will be pretty much impossible to resolve without a popular vote or something, and the potential for so much drama. IF everyone was recording, we could talk about adding the FIA guidelines of 2 wheels on the track at any time, and agreeing on a penalty for not having the wheels on the track, as well as penalties for dropping debris, but it would also be alot of work and I'm not sure who would want to do that for 45x20 minutes each week, and then settling disputes on top of that. The inside line has priority, but to have claim on the inside line you must complete an overtake before the braking zone, you can't just throw yourself in there and pray that you manage to brake in time. There is rules in regards to how far up on the side of the car you must be for it to count as an overtake, and you also still have to do it in a way that gives the overtaken driver a chance to be aware of your presence. As an overtaking driver you have the responsibility to make sure it's possible to do it cleanly. If you can't complete an overtake before the braking zone (get far enough up on the side) you count as being behind and if you then move up on their side it will be counted as moving in the braking zone. Keep in mind there is still a billion different exceptions but the base line is that the driver coming from behind is responsible for making a clean overtake, and making his intentions clear, so regardless of your abilities the overtake must happen at a similar pace at least to the car in front if you're overtaking in turns. On straights it's much simpler. Basically what it then means that the inside line has priority is that if you managed to get up on someones side, or they got up on yours, whoever is on the inside has priority on choosing their exit from the turn. And the player on the outside in considered behind and must adapt to what the player on the inside is doing. Now, a classic example I get in these discussions from people claiming they can overtake in the braking zone is Sutil v Alonso on Monaco in 2013: www.youtube.com/watch?v=lojgq6-mRjgHowever, there's some really important considerations to make when watching that overtake, this is not Sutil throwing himself infront of Alonso in the braking zone and suddenly making a move. But he was watching Alonso go wide in that turn on the previous lap as well (shown at the start), so as Alonso has forfeited the inside line to follow the racing line around the corner, Sutil moves up on the inside line and gets priority over Alonso who went wide. He's making this move at a speed that gives Alonso time to react and at a moment where a gap is opening in front of Alonso as well which is what makes this possible in the first place. This is not a prime example on how to make overtakes as it's very circumstantial, it's simply Sutil taking the opportunity when Alonso makes a mistake. What he's NOT doing is moving in on full throttle to squeeze between and slamming the brakes, what he IS doing is making a calculated move at a speed where he still has time to react and avoid collision if he discovers there's not enough space. Just a little addition to make sure we avoid that whole argument where people claim they have the right of way because they're certain they can go faster, and thus rules don't apply to them.
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Craig 9876
Member
If you're second, you're only the first in a long line of losers
Posts: 717
Registered on: May 2014
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Post by Craig 9876 on Nov 23, 2014 14:35:52 GMT
I get where you're coming from fachuro but I really don't see many problems arising from this. Tracks will be made so that Lampposts are not falling over anyway so the chance of lamp posts falling will be minimal if any. Jontti I know for a fact could record the race because I have seen him upload videos to youtube before. Broughy is in one division, shaggy the other so again, we have coverage over both Divisions. The other alternative is that we have Div 1 race first, then the Div 2 race so that I can Spectate the other division myself and check to see if everyone abides by the rules. I trust everyone who is in this to be openly honest anyway and don't see this being too much of an issue. OpalescentFalcon Yes the F1 rules will apply to the event
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Post by OpalescentFalcon on Nov 23, 2014 14:53:35 GMT
There is rules in regards to how far up on the side of the car you must be for it to count as an overtake. Did not know about the buffer limit. Less material for drama. So how far up on the side of the car must you be? I have seen some people not back off as soon as their front axle is level with your rear axle.
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Craig 9876
Member
If you're second, you're only the first in a long line of losers
Posts: 717
Registered on: May 2014
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Post by Craig 9876 on Nov 23, 2014 15:38:43 GMT
There is rules in regards to how far up on the side of the car you must be for it to count as an overtake. Did not know about the buffer limit. Less material for drama. So how far up on the side of the car must you be? I have seen some people not back off as soon as their front axle is level with your rear axle. It must be more than halfway
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fachuro
Member
Posts: 1,036
Registered on: September 2014
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Post by fachuro on Nov 23, 2014 16:22:12 GMT
Did not know about the buffer limit. Less material for drama. So how far up on the side of the car must you be? I have seen some people not back off as soon as their front axle is level with your rear axle. It must be more than halfway As Craig said, front axle v rear axle is NASCAR rules, and especially in F1 with open wheel cars would be incredibly dangerous. It's perhaps the moment when it's most important to back off, as if the axles lock both cars will lose all ability to steer and just go straight off the course taking anything in their way with. If you are more then halfway and the other person turns into you by not paying attention neither car will spin and you most likely just scratch a little paint, there might be a little bump but it's easy to control and recover your car after that. So basically if you send a car flying in a turn you have either not been far enough up their side, or you've been carrying too much speed into the turn and wasn't able to brake enough. Either way it's a good sign that you did something wrong. The reason why this doesn't happen if you're more then halfway up is simple leverage. Each car have a center, when the car spins it's turning around that center. If you are more then halfway up any power applied from your car onto the other car in the case of contact will be applied in front of that center and thus any spinning motion you can apply to the other car will cause it's rear end to turn towards your car and get stabilised again, so the car wont spin out. If you are behind this centre the opposite will happen, but as the front end then has nothing to be stabilised by the car will spin. If the car doesn't spin that means you are far enough up the side, however there is still the issue of speed as mentioned before. If the car goes flying when you were on the inside of it it means your car was carrying that amount of force in the direction that car goes, so what force you see applied to that car is in fact left-over speed from your car. If you then take a turn perfectly and the car beside you go flying that's an indication you braked to late and wouldn't have managed to take the turn that well if you didn't have that car as a buffer for your left-over speed. That's why you should always be on pace with the car in front of you, not the leaders of the pack, if you're driving in traffic. You can then perform the overtake when you have the opportunity to do so, and once you have, if there is no more traffic in front of you you get to decide the pace again. If you are much faster there shouldn't be much of a problem finding an opportunity to make the pass on a straight. And if it gets too hard, take your hat off and give some well-deserved credit to the guy who's obviously defending well agains't you. If it's that difficult their probably keeping a pretty decent pace anyways, and possibly more consistent since they are in front of you in the first place. In which case you might be well served just staying behind at their pace for a while and getting that same consistent pace. Everyone can't finish first, and if you've lost ground to the leaders it might clever to just consolidate and take what you can at least. Then maybe some of the leaders make mistakes later and you can gain some ground again. And if you're in that lead pack, there's still no reason to get desperate as it's a long event, and most of the time if you try to pull away and gain a significant lead you'll quickly find yourself making mistakes and losing more then you gained. Consistency is key. craig 9876 : In regards to your comment I would just like to add that having 3 POV's in total over 40 racers is hardly gonna be able to cover the race, if people just have to drive clean when they're around Broughy and Shaggy it's not really going to represent what happens on the other parts of the track. So you'll end up with one person penalised for going on a sidewalk around one of them and then another 30 people not penalised running on every sidewalk that's not shown on the video for example. It would be a good rule if we had a good measure of whether or not people are doing it, but I don't think we do. However, if could've had full coverage of all the cars and for some reason could've actually enforced the rules, the punishments are still too strict. The best option then would be to follow the FIA again and hand out penalties for offenses, based on the grade. Like 5, 10 and 20 seconds depending on how serious the "crime" was. If we want full coverage the only way I see that possible atm is if we break it down into rounds like Broughy's RL racing videos. Qualifier determines the starting grid, then 3 rounds x 10-12 minutes and a 15 minute final for example. Finishing positions deciding the starting grid for the consecutive races.
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Post by super_man821 on Nov 23, 2014 17:36:33 GMT
craig sign me up please. i am part of sweat buckets, sweat buckets vip and true
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Post by super_man821 on Nov 23, 2014 17:51:04 GMT
craig sign me up please. (psn:super_man821)
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Post by Hale on Nov 23, 2014 18:38:46 GMT
Absolute giggle of a set of rules there lads...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Registered on: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 18:47:36 GMT
Absolute giggle of a set of rules there lads... What do you mean?
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Xiphactin
Member
Posts: 200
Registered on: July 2014
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Post by Xiphactin on Nov 23, 2014 18:49:05 GMT
I just had a thought. If everyone livestreamed the event through the ps4, you could look at all the past broadcasts on twitch and get every point of view.
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