rcracer11m
Member
You've gotta laugh, otherwise you'd cry
Posts: 1,053
Registered on: October 2014
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Post by rcracer11m on Nov 25, 2014 2:35:31 GMT
What about old gen? Will it even be held on there? And how would the classes be for that?
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Post by Ser Tandur on Nov 25, 2014 20:11:14 GMT
You would have to explain your idea more before I could come up with something. That being said... mechanical failures are part of real life racing. Disconnections are part of online racing. There is no consolation prize for real life, so a consolation in online doesn't jive. If players are worried about potential disconnections, they should research port forwarding, and review their ISP plan. If you only have one ISP available, that's unfortunate, but everyone plays the cards they are dealt. In theory, I agree... However, if R* Cloud Servers continue being as unstabile as they have been lately there's not necessarily that much you can do. I've got a 100/5 line with all the right ports forwarded (according to R* Support's article) and an open NAT, so in theory I shouldn't have any issues at all. Yet I'm getting just as many disconnect issues these days as everyone else, because something is wrong with the R* servers. Just pointing out that it's not necessarily always that people haven't done their research and taken the necessary steps... GTA:O is more notorious for server-side issues then client-side... If the R* cloud servers are being difficult, that is something that everyone has to deal with across the board. As such, it's out of our control much like mechanical failures are out of the control of most drivers (some push their cars too hard). If you're driving a GT1 car it handles and brakes much better, and it should be easier to adapt to traffic. While they may handle better, they probably do not brake better. Most cars in each class have very similar braking force. This is important when it comes to braking points. A GT3 car does not need to brake as early as a GT1 car, for two reasons. 1, the brake power between the two is nearly identical. 2, the GT3 car is traveling slower, and therefor his braking point is later than a GT1 car's braking point. Trying to pass in a corner hoping your car brakes better is not possible in this game because of the class structure. I'd also love the cars to be a little better matched up as some people said. Massacro vs Schwartzer was a little too big difference, maybe Massacro v Alpha v Fusilade for example could be a nice matchup. I'd also like to see a few bottom-class choices like Moostered suggested, where all 3 cars are selected from the lower tiers in their class. An example there could be Hotknife v Voodoo v Rat-Loader. Or Manana v Peyote v Tornado. Say if we're doing approx 1h of laps in the fastest class. The avg lap for GT1 is 1:00, GT2 is 1:05 and GT 3 is 1:10 in the qualifiers. Then we know the rought pace estimate for each class, and could send off GT 3 five minutes ahead of GT2, and GT2 five minutes ahead of GT1. So the top of each class should be finishing at approx the same time. This would also give the GT 3 and GT2 cars a little more focus and attention through the first few laps, and the GT2 and GT1 cars would be encountering mostly spread out traffic. Just an idea that I atleast think would be pretty cool. ;-) That way there could be a class-less championship in addition to the in-class championships. Time intervals could be based on Broughy's fully modded testing. It would also make for even less first-corner mayhem considering only ten cars would be starting at the time, and it would give GT1 a chance to follow the progression of GT2 and GT3 a little bit over the course of the first few laps, making it all just that little more exciting to be in GT2 and GT3. I also think it would be good if GT2 and GT3 are allowed to defend in corners but will be overtaken on the next straight regardless. It adds more tension to the battles. Just out of curiosity, have you played Forza 4? (I have no idea if multi-class is still in Forza 5). They have multi-class racing, and the classes in the race are generally well separated in terms of performance and pace on a track. If the cars are too closely matched up, you will have a mess of cars in the middle trying to fight through each other when they technically aren't even competing against each other. They are only sharing the track. I can personally attest to a few situations being caught up in the mix of GT2 cars, and because the performance gap wasn't enough, it was difficult for me to work past them. Part of it is the track, part of it is my own skill, but much of it was due to the cars. If I recall, Broughy is modeling this event after the FIA World Endurance Championship ( FIA WEC on Wikipedia). They use two classes for their races: LMP (Le Mans Prototype) and LM GTE (Le Mans Grand Touring Endurance). Here's the quote from their website about Multi-Class Racing: And Forza 4 does use that idea of starting the slower cars first and then the faster cars. They use a 30 second delay, which works out to mean all cars should have the potential to finish before the race timer ends. Because of the severe differences in performance between the classes, the cars in the higher class have no trouble catching up and lapping the cars in the lower class. To do this in GTA V, many have mentioned it before, so I'll repeat it: we would have to use GTA Races and C4 as a start signal, which some may find "bothersome and time consuming." I like the staggered start idea, personally, and also don't think it'd take that much time (less than 5 minutes). Though I really hope we could trust people not to be rage-quitting just because of bad performance though We had one known rage quit in the MCEC, albeit due to a glitch. There may have been another rage quit or two that we do not know of (and is pointless to figure out). It's always a possibility, however small.
Finally, and this is for everyone to read, I want to post a bit from a FAQ I read about multi-class racing. The FAQ is aimed at iRacing players (something my computer cannot run). I made a few edits to make it relevant to us. Many of the points mentioned below have already been discussed at various points during the MCEC.
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MCEC 2
Nov 26, 2014 18:10:55 GMT
Post by Trowa on Nov 26, 2014 18:10:55 GMT
Id be really impressed if 30 people managed to get into the race together. I highly doubt you will ever touch your xbox360 again for gta so my opinion really doesnt mean dick but if you are going to have another one of these events I would make every track have a good long lap time. Passing slow cars may be what makes multiclass racing interesting to you but short tracks with a bunch of laps on extremely tight tracks made the event pretty rough. If it were me I would pick tracks LIKE the north loop, 24 hour le mans, nurburgring. Wide open tracks with plenty of room, lots of clean passing chances, lots of straights where the faster car can actually use its power, not 1000 poles. Now Im sure about 100 people want to come in now and say the North Loop is shit and blah blah as usual. No one cares its just a suggestion on how I would do things to make the event cleaner. The first thing would be better track selection.
As for the number of classes and amount of people in each class I have to say I dont think it matters. It will have little to no impact on the cleanliness of the race. Our issues came from gt1 cars have very few chances to pass in the last event. Not from the number of gt1 or gt2 cars. Most accidents happened between just 2 people. Its not like there was a clusterfuck of cars passing 1 gt2 car and they all wrecked. It had more to do with the track than anything. North Loop had by far the fewest complaints all 2 times it was used.
These are my opinions and observations. They are intended for broughy to read and judge. Anyone elses opinion will be ignored because Im highly aware most people fucking hate the North Loop and I really dont care to hear anymore about it. If you have something intelligent and inciteful to add then by all means enlighten us.
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rcracer11m
Member
You've gotta laugh, otherwise you'd cry
Posts: 1,053
Registered on: October 2014
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MCEC 2
Nov 26, 2014 18:43:11 GMT
via mobile
Post by rcracer11m on Nov 26, 2014 18:43:11 GMT
I agree the tracks need to be open but I'm not sure about your track suggestions,I think they're just too long. The idea of having it be multi class is that you wil have to pass the other drivers and I think that only happened once on the north loop. I don't think having a shorter track is that bad as long as it's open enough.
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MCEC 2
Nov 26, 2014 18:54:31 GMT
Post by Trowa on Nov 26, 2014 18:54:31 GMT
I agree the tracks need to be open but I'm not sure about your track suggestions,I think they're just too long. The idea of having it be multi class is that you wil have to pass the other drivers and I think that only happened once on the north loop. I don't think having a shorter track is that bad as long as it's open enough. Thats why I said LIKE those tracks. There are a metric fuckload of 2-3minute tracks using the same area of the map. With that kind of lap time you can expect gt1 to lap gt2s full field at least twice.
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Craig 9876
Member
If you're second, you're only the first in a long line of losers
Posts: 717
Registered on: May 2014
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MCEC 2
Nov 26, 2014 19:07:37 GMT
Post by Craig 9876 on Nov 26, 2014 19:07:37 GMT
Well...there are far too many paragraphs and words for my eyes to handle on this page.
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rcracer11m
Member
You've gotta laugh, otherwise you'd cry
Posts: 1,053
Registered on: October 2014
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MCEC 2
Nov 26, 2014 19:07:37 GMT
via mobile
Post by rcracer11m on Nov 26, 2014 19:07:37 GMT
Yes I realise that but I don't want to do races that are only in that area because they aren't technical enough but of course the more technical it is the less open most of the time so it's a trade off of technical vs. open roads.
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MCEC 2
Nov 27, 2014 2:13:50 GMT
Post by Hale on Nov 27, 2014 2:13:50 GMT
In for the 3x10 idea, using longer tracks. North loop length is perfect.
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MCEC 2
Nov 27, 2014 2:31:31 GMT
Post by lewjen (smithyonetwelve) on Nov 27, 2014 2:31:31 GMT
I definitely prefer the sound of 3x10. Also, probably a bit early for this but just a suggestion, in season 1 everyone knew way before the event what the weather would be, wet or dry, but that's not how it works irl, right? How about a few races where weather is set to 'current' so it could be one or the other, or start to rain half way through etc., to add a bit more realism. Doesn't have to be all of them, for one or two races I think that could work quite well.
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MCEC 2
Nov 27, 2014 2:59:28 GMT
Post by Ser Tandur on Nov 27, 2014 2:59:28 GMT
I definitely prefer the sound of 3x10. Also, probably a bit early for this but just a suggestion, in season 1 everyone knew way before the event what the weather would be, wet or dry, but that's not how it works irl, right? How about a few races where weather is set to 'current' so it could be one or the other, or start to rain half way through etc., to add a bit more realism. Doesn't have to be all of them, for one or two races I think that could work quite well. Professional racing series don't race in the rain. They wait for it to clear up and then they dry the track be4starting/resuming the race. We did do one race in the rain, and IIR, most disliked it.
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MCEC 2
Nov 27, 2014 3:04:42 GMT
Post by ♛ZeNzI23 on Nov 27, 2014 3:04:42 GMT
They do, if it starts raining they switch bikes or tires. Depending on what you think is professional racing. Unless it's a gigantic storm ofc
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fachuro
Member
Posts: 1,036
Registered on: September 2014
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MCEC 2
Nov 27, 2014 3:04:49 GMT
Post by fachuro on Nov 27, 2014 3:04:49 GMT
I definitely prefer the sound of 3x10. Also, probably a bit early for this but just a suggestion, in season 1 everyone knew way before the event what the weather would be, wet or dry, but that's not how it works irl, right? How about a few races where weather is set to 'current' so it could be one or the other, or start to rain half way through etc., to add a bit more realism. Doesn't have to be all of them, for one or two races I think that could work quite well. Professional racing series don't race in the rain. They wait for it to clear up and then they dry the track be4starting/resuming the race. We did do one race in the rain, and IIR, most disliked it. I support lewjens idea though. We did this in the RRGP and it really adds a lot of suspense if it suddenly begins to rain, it also requires more ability to adapt to the surroundings from the drivers, which is good for an endurance race imo.
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MCEC 2
Nov 27, 2014 3:16:54 GMT
Post by lewjen (smithyonetwelve) on Nov 27, 2014 3:16:54 GMT
I was looking at it from the standpoint of adapting to the weather conditions, really. It's one thing to practice lap after lap knowing what the conditions will be like, but another if it suddenly pours down changing the grip level completely. As fachuro mentioned, that's something that I personally think an endurance race should really highlight in a driver.
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MCEC 2
Nov 27, 2014 3:17:02 GMT
via mobile
Post by Hale on Nov 27, 2014 3:17:02 GMT
Professional racing series don't race in the rain. They wait for it to clear up and then they dry the track be4starting/resuming the race. We did do one race in the rain, and IIR, most disliked it. I support lewjens idea though. We did this in the RRGP and it really adds a lot of suspense if it suddenly begins to rain, it also requires more ability to adapt to the surroundings from the drivers, which is good for an endurance race imo. It rains at different times for different people so thats a pretty useless feature. Even when all in the same freemode before. Tried and tested, cant work on current. Sorry to be bursting bubbles.
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Post by Renegade1911 on Nov 27, 2014 3:19:02 GMT
Suggestion, Broughy1322. How about we divide the racers into 3 groups, and each group would drive a different GT class every race? It would mix things up and hopefully prevent some frustration and boredom.
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