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Post by tjezc☻ on Jun 17, 2015 13:07:27 GMT
Ok, so I've been in this situation a couple of times, where person A (Mr Blue) will be completely stopped as I come up behind him at full speed. HUGE IMAGE 1 I move over to pass him, but with his tiny amount of speed, he cut me off. HUGE IMAGE 2 Now, at this point there is nothing I can do to avoid a collision, which, conveniently for Mr. Blue, gives him the boost he needs to get back in the race, and I am left wondering if that was legal. I don't think it is, but I wanted to get your guy's opinions. That move doesn't seem right to me, assuming he indeed has a lot less speed. It might be a defensive move, but considering his speed the move is more dangerous than defensive. I don't think that Mr Blue would get away with that in a RL race; it's reckless driving and lack of anticipation. It all depends on both your speeds, tho. When a defender makes their one move, the distance and closing speed of the attacker may also be considered by the stewards. If the attacker is closing quickly and is only a short distance behind, then they may not have time to evade a sudden move into their path. It is at the stewards’ discretion whether or not to punish late defensive moves under sporting regulation 20.5. Source
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Post by Trowa on Jun 17, 2015 13:07:41 GMT
Perfectly legal if he made 1 move. You have brakes, use them. Its a race, unless he's weaving around he has every right to defend his position. You dont have to make a pass the second you catch up with someone. He's already rattled from a crash, bide your time until the time is right. Patience is a virtue. So, I should just hit the brakes every time every time I see a car ahead just in case he moves into me at the last possible moment? Depends on the driver. I myself prefer to let people pass and retake the position. Some people however go straight into defensive mode the second anyone is near them. Like Broughy for instance. In my experience racing with Broughy he will defend you until the end of time if you let him. I wouldnt call him dirty and hes done that exact move to me before. You will learn who does what more and more as you go on but the important thing here is unless he weaved back and forth or sideswipes you off the track attempting a block way to late then its clean by racing standards. Trust me I know how frustrating it is but everyone has their own preferneces and driving styles. As you learn what people like to do it will come easier to you. But yes if you know someone is known to block at all costs then you probably should be ready to brake or sort of juke the move by feinting and forcing the driver to defend air.
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Post by Pundip on Jun 17, 2015 13:11:25 GMT
Defense, I understand, defense in such a way that I can not avoid hitting him, I do not. He caused a collision, which, under any other circumstance, would be illegal. Perfectly legal if he made 1 move. You have brakes, use them. Its a race, unless he's weaving around he has every right to defend his position. You dont have to make a pass the second you catch up with someone. He's already rattled from a crash, bide your time until the time is right. Patience is a virtue. Unless the mental image I have created for myself is vastly different from yours Trowa, that would be considered blocking. There is no reason whatsoever for someone that is not driving at full racing speed to pull out in front of someone to defend their position. Put it this way, if that were to happen in real life let's say F1 for the sake of it, and I was recovering from a spin/crash/whatever and you were approaching me at full speed down a straight, you would just pull out and shoot straight past me. If I chose to pull across to the other side of the road after you had made your intentions to pass clear and you smashed into the back of me, that would be an illegal move that is also incredibly dangerous and would result in a huge crash and a trip to the hospital for us both. The stewards would penalise me for dangerous driving and I would most likely have a grid penalty for the next race.
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Post by Trowa on Jun 17, 2015 13:24:21 GMT
Perfectly legal if he made 1 move. You have brakes, use them. Its a race, unless he's weaving around he has every right to defend his position. You dont have to make a pass the second you catch up with someone. He's already rattled from a crash, bide your time until the time is right. Patience is a virtue. Unless the mental image I have created for myself is vastly different from yours Trowa, that would be considered blocking. There is no reason whatsoever for someone that is not driving at full racing speed to pull out in front of someone to defend their position. Put it this way, if that were to happen in real life let's say F1 for the sake of it, and I was recovering from a spin/crash/whatever and you were approaching me at full speed down a straight, you would just pull out and shoot straight past me. If I chose to pull across to the other side of the road after you had made your intentions to pass clear and you smashed into the back of me, that would be an illegal move that is also incredibly dangerous and would result in a huge crash and a trip to the hospital for us both. The stewards would penalise me for dangerous driving and I would most likely have a grid penalty for the next race. If you guys say so. Its also entirely possible that the racer in question moved off the racing line trying to allow a pass. There is a lot of information missing. Such as the actual speeds of the drivers. The section of road they were on, very important, passing itself may have been wreckless driving there is such a thing as a non passing zone. The intention of the driver in question. In my head if he had time to move over and Jackimo slammed into his back cleanly then Jackimo had time to see the move being performed and didnt react in time. Really though Broughy defends like this a lot or did when I played him on 360. I just dont think its dirty if you move before the driver gets there. Its not my style but I see plenty of people that are well respected doing it. This is blocking. If what happened to you Jackimo is the same as the last 5seconds then yes. Thats blocking. If they returned to the track got going and moved to one line to DEFEND then what Ive been saying applies. You are going to have to be the judge for yourself because none of us know exactly what happened even with your diagram.
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Post by tjezc☻ on Jun 17, 2015 13:30:53 GMT
Unless the mental image I have created for myself is vastly different from yours Trowa, that would be considered blocking. There is no reason whatsoever for someone that is not driving at full racing speed to pull out in front of someone to defend their position. Put it this way, if that were to happen in real life let's say F1 for the sake of it, and I was recovering from a spin/crash/whatever and you were approaching me at full speed down a straight, you would just pull out and shoot straight past me. If I chose to pull across to the other side of the road after you had made your intentions to pass clear and you smashed into the back of me, that would be an illegal move that is also incredibly dangerous and would result in a huge crash and a trip to the hospital for us both. The stewards would penalise me for dangerous driving and I would most likely have a grid penalty for the next race. If you guys say so. Its also entirely possible that the racer in question moved off the racing line trying to allow a pass. There is a lot of information missing. Such as the actual speeds of the drivers. The section of road they were on, very important, passing itself may have been wreckless driving there is such a thing as a non passing zone. The intention of the driver in question. In my head if he had time to move over and Jackimo slammed into his back cleanly then Jackimo had time to see the move being performed and didnt react in time. Really though Broughy defends like this a lot or did when I played him on 360. I just dont think its dirty if you move before the driver gets there. Its not my style but I see plenty of people that are well respected doing it. The move itself indeed is perfectly legal. As you said you're allowed one defensive move on a straight. But considering variables, RL stewards will take the cars speeds into account as well, and as far as this goes (again: I'm assuming the speed difference was large) the move would probably be illegal because it's damn reckless to throw your slow self in front of a car at top speed
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Post by Trowa on Jun 17, 2015 13:33:13 GMT
If you guys say so. Its also entirely possible that the racer in question moved off the racing line trying to allow a pass. There is a lot of information missing. Such as the actual speeds of the drivers. The section of road they were on, very important, passing itself may have been wreckless driving there is such a thing as a non passing zone. The intention of the driver in question. In my head if he had time to move over and Jackimo slammed into his back cleanly then Jackimo had time to see the move being performed and didnt react in time. Really though Broughy defends like this a lot or did when I played him on 360. I just dont think its dirty if you move before the driver gets there. Its not my style but I see plenty of people that are well respected doing it. The move itself indeed is perfectly legal. As you said you're allowed one defensive move on a straight. But considering variables, RL stewards will take the cars speeds into account as well, and as far as this goes (again: I'm assuming the speed difference was large) the move would probably be illegal. I posted a video with what I think you and Pundip are talking about. Last 5seconds. THATS illegal. If he was back on the track and just slower then Jackimo. Well then he has the right to defend and you either brake, crash or pick a new line.
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Post by Pundip on Jun 17, 2015 13:37:08 GMT
That last one in the video you posted Trowa is pretty much spot on how I pictured it.
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Post by Jackimo on Jun 17, 2015 13:37:46 GMT
The move itself indeed is perfectly legal. As you said you're allowed one defensive move on a straight. But considering variables, RL stewards will take the cars speeds into account as well, and as far as this goes (again: I'm assuming the speed difference was large) the move would probably be illegal. I posted a video with what I think you and Pundip are talking about. Last 5seconds. THATS illegal. If he was back on the track and just slower then Jackimo. Well then he has the right to defend and you either brake, crash or pick a new line. It's difficult to say, since he had respawned, rather than crashed, but the last few seconds of that video is pretty much what happened. Just with less time for me to react.
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Post by Pundip on Jun 17, 2015 13:40:26 GMT
So basically Jackimo, racing has a lot of grey areas and nothing is as cut and dry as it appears when it comes to certain rules. If that example is what happened then I would still say that is illegal and If I were a steward witnessing that "Mr. Blue" would be black flagged and hauled off the track for dangerous driving. There's a lot of ifs in that sentence lol
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Post by Jackimo on Jun 17, 2015 13:49:51 GMT
So basically Jackimo, racing has a lot of grey areas and nothing is as cut and dry as it appears when it comes to certain rules. If that example is what happened then I would still say that is illegal and If I were a steward witnessing that "Mr. Blue" would be black flagged and hauled off the track for dangerous driving. There's a lot of ifs in that sentence lol There's only two if that's how you count and if I were an editor I would allow it if and only if it was necessary. If. But anyway, thanks for your and everyone else's help if this is the end of the conversation, which I get the feeling it isn't. if.
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Post by Trowa on Jun 17, 2015 13:51:05 GMT
So basically Jackimo, racing has a lot of grey areas and nothing is as cut and dry as it appears when it comes to certain rules. If that example is what happened then I would still say that is illegal and If I were a steward witnessing that "Mr. Blue" would be black flagged and hauled off the track for dangerous driving. There's a lot of ifs in that sentence lol Id also add that if he respawned his mini map was gone as Jackimo caught up and he probably didnt even know he was there. The ghost mode after respawns really needs to be a solid 5 seconds or only turn off when you hit the next CP or something because Ive had my fair share of respawn fuckery if I do say so myself. All your ifs are belong to us.
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Post by Jackimo on Jun 17, 2015 13:57:04 GMT
So basically Jackimo, racing has a lot of grey areas and nothing is as cut and dry as it appears when it comes to certain rules. If that example is what happened then I would still say that is illegal and If I were a steward witnessing that "Mr. Blue" would be black flagged and hauled off the track for dangerous driving. There's a lot of ifs in that sentence lol Id also add that if he respawned his mini map was gone as Jackimo caught up and he probably didnt even know he was there. The ghost mode after respawns really needs to be a solid 5 seconds or only turn off when you hit the next CP or something because Ive had my fair share of respawn fuckery if I do say so myself. All your ifs are belong to us.It can't be next checkpoint because you get some races where point 1 is the top of the mountain and point 2 is halfway across the map and it would just become a non-contact race. But the ghost time should be longer.
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Post by Trowa on Jun 17, 2015 13:58:13 GMT
Id also add that if he respawned his mini map was gone as Jackimo caught up and he probably didnt even know he was there. The ghost mode after respawns really needs to be a solid 5 seconds or only turn off when you hit the next CP or something because Ive had my fair share of respawn fuckery if I do say so myself. All your ifs are belong to us.It can't be next checkpoint because you get some races where point 1 is the top of the mountain and point 2 is halfway across the map and it would just become a non-contact race. But the ghost should be longer. True, either way R* will never implement it. Just wishful thinking
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Post by KoBo_043 on Jun 18, 2015 8:30:42 GMT
If ghosttime would be 10 sec i stead of 5, people would try to take advantace of it by keeping the racingline as long as possible, and same issues would occur, only 5 seconds later.
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Post by tjezc☻ on Jun 18, 2015 8:42:30 GMT
If you're awesome you can just glitch the ghost to stay forever by staying on top of eachother. It will be a little bit like a Russian Roulette: you never know when you separate long enough to cause contact and hopefully crashing each other!
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