Deleted
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Posts: 0
Registered on: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 10:34:24 GMT
I think if people realised we only get our 80 years (if we're lucky) and then it's game over, we might stop worrying about what everyone else is doing and try to enjoy our brief, insignificant lives while we can without fucking it up for anybody else. On a lighter note, congratulations to you and your partner tsunderella (Ch3rryBoyHunter)! This should have come long ago but at least it's here now. While I am of the same belief as marked with bold, wishing for a world where everyone share that view is simply unrealistic (not saying that you don't already know that). Stating that a lot of conflicts will go away if this was the case is the same as wishing if just everybody could understand that god loves everybody and if just everyone could realise that and follow his words. 7 billion people will never agree, therefor acceptance is key. Different cultures -> different laws -> different countries. The debate whether a religious leader should be allowed to deny a LGBT couple his approval of marriage is simply a question of culture. The way I see this, a gay couple can go and get married by the mayor, no problem. The conflict arrives when the couple identify themself as a part of a religion that doesn't see gay couples as valid for marriage. The conflict here is between the culture behind the religion and the culture of LGBT acceptance. So whether or not the pastor (or other leaders) should be forced by law to marry the couple is (in my humble opinion) up to democracy to decide. If the majority thinks that religion (and its views) is an important part of the society, then it is. Here's a question of thought for you all: Can a gay person identify themself as religious when the very religion is against homosexuality? Can a jew be a nazi even though the very ideology is against his/her existence? *No hate on jews, it's just to put the first question in perspective*
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Deleted
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Registered on: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 10:38:07 GMT
Such a heavy discussion, while we should be drinking beers (or lemonade if your religion doesn't allow the consumption of alcohol ofcourse) and eating cake in celebration I'm just glad I'm Dutch, where most/a lot of people are really open minded about this stuff, and to see the rest of the world is graduately following. Maybe... MAYBE... at one point we can all get along This is why the Netherlands is one of my top go-to countries is if I ever should leave Denmark/Scandinavia :-)
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oleg_aka_djmeg
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Tied for 29th Place in Stream Race w/ Willard Faction @ North Loop Hosted by @Broughy1322
Posts: 288
Registered on: October 2014
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Post by oleg_aka_djmeg on Jun 30, 2015 11:52:22 GMT
when you say america, do you mean north america or south america?
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Robodark
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Posts: 681
Registered on: March 2015
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Post by Robodark on Jun 30, 2015 12:10:36 GMT
Such a heavy discussion, while we should be drinking beers (or lemonade if your religion doesn't allow the consumption of alcohol ofcourse) and eating cake in celebration I'm just glad I'm Dutch, where most/a lot of people are really open minded about this stuff, and to see the rest of the world is graduately following. Maybe... MAYBE... at one point we can all get along KoBo, wanna know what I hear everyday when I walk outside? "Kanker homo" (Not towards me.)
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Post by KoBo_043 on Jun 30, 2015 12:25:01 GMT
Such a heavy discussion, while we should be drinking beers (or lemonade if your religion doesn't allow the consumption of alcohol ofcourse) and eating cake in celebration I'm just glad I'm Dutch, where most/a lot of people are really open minded about this stuff, and to see the rest of the world is graduately following. Maybe... MAYBE... at one point we can all get along KoBo, wanna know what I hear everyday when I walk outside? "Kanker homo" (Not towards me.) Not to justify it at all, and there's a pretty elaborate discussion on that topic elsewhere on the forums, but both words "kanker" (cancer) and "homo" are used the same way as "fucking" and "fuck" without the actual intention of refering to the actual meaning of the words nowadays. I myself call annoying people "flikker" (same as "homo") from time to time without even thinking about it. I know I shouldn't, but it's quite common and as wrong as it seems even socially accepted by the majority. Also I'd like to note that in the south the use of 'kanker' as an additive is much, much less compared to A'dam, R'dam an Utrecht for example. I don't want to start that entire discussion again over here. My point was that overall the Dutch people are openminded about LGBT issues. Ofcourse there will always be exceptions to prove the rule (is that 'van Gaal English'?)
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Post by tjezc☻ on Jun 30, 2015 12:31:02 GMT
I think if people realised we only get our 80 years (if we're lucky) and then it's game over, we might stop worrying about what everyone else is doing and try to enjoy our brief, insignificant lives while we can without fucking it up for anybody else. On a lighter note, congratulations to you and your partner tsunderella (Ch3rryBoyHunter)! This should have come long ago but at least it's here now. While I am of the same belief as marked with bold, wishing for a world where everyone share that view is simply unrealistic (not saying that you don't already know that). Stating that a lot of conflicts will go away if this was the case is the same as wishing if just everybody could understand that god loves everybody and if just everyone could realise that and follow his words. 7 billion people will never agree, therefor acceptance is key. Different cultures -> different laws -> different countries. The debate whether a religious leader should be allowed to deny a LGBT couple his approval of marriage is simply a question of culture. The way I see this, a gay couple can go and get married by the mayor, no problem. The conflict arrives when the couple identify themself as a part of a religion that doesn't see gay couples as valid for marriage. The conflict here is between the culture behind the religion and the culture of LGBT acceptance. So whether or not the pastor (or other leaders) should be forced by law to marry the couple is (in my humble opinion) up to democracy to decide. If the majority thinks that religion (and its views) is an important part of the society, then it is. Here's a question of thought for you all: Can a gay person identify themself as religious when the very religion is against homosexuality? Can a jew be a nazi even though the very ideology is against his/her existence? *No hate on jews, it's just to put the first question in perspective* Yes. Man made up religion, man changes. So religion should also change, but books aren't that dynamic or rewritten soon. I'm sure that if a sane person would rewrite the Bible today, being gay would be no problem at all. I repeat, it must be written by a sane person. As I've attempted to make clear before: there is only one thing that counts, which is being a good person. Religion helps people to be good, or at least it should. Ideas that people had at the time when a specific religion was made up, are often outdated and completely irrelevant to the views of today's generation. The means have not changed, however. Just be good, be good, be good, be good, be good. - Eartha Kitt
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Post by tjezc☻ on Jun 30, 2015 12:31:40 GMT
Such a heavy discussion, while we should be drinking beers (or lemonade if your religion doesn't allow the consumption of alcohol ofcourse) and eating cake in celebration I'm just glad I'm Dutch, where most/a lot of people are really open minded about this stuff, and to see the rest of the world is graduately following. Maybe... MAYBE... at one point we can all get along KoBo, wanna know what I hear everyday when I walk outside? "Kanker homo" (Not towards me.) Those are just kids. Let them be, you were like that I'm sure!
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Robodark
Member
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Posts: 681
Registered on: March 2015
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Post by Robodark on Jun 30, 2015 12:34:20 GMT
KoBo, wanna know what I hear everyday when I walk outside? "Kanker homo" (Not towards me.) Not to justify it at all, and there's a pretty elaborate discussion on that topic elsewhere on the forums, but both words "kanker" (cancer) and "homo" are used the same way as "fucking" and "fuck" without the actual intention of refering to the actual meaning of the words nowadays. I myself call annoying people "flikker" (same as "homo") from time to time without even thinking about it. I know I shouldn't, but it's quite common and as wrong as it seems even socially accepted by the majority. Also I'd like to note that in the south the use of 'kanker' as an additive is much, much less compared to A'dam, R'dam an Utrecht for example. I don't want to start that entire discussion again over here. My point was that overall the Dutch people are openminded about LGBT issues. Ofcourse there will always be exceptions to prove the rule (is that 'van Gaal English'?) It's sad though that that's socially accepted now days, but of course it's totally possible that that's the case because I live in The Hauge I didn't meant it as an argument though. But yeah, a lot of people are open to gays in Holland, what's a good thing of course. ("Van Gaal English"! XD)
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Robodark
Member
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Posts: 681
Registered on: March 2015
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Post by Robodark on Jun 30, 2015 12:34:55 GMT
KoBo, wanna know what I hear everyday when I walk outside? "Kanker homo" (Not towards me.) Those are just kids. Let them be, you were like that I'm sure! I never was a kid, I always was and still am a banana.
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Post by tjezc☻ on Jun 30, 2015 12:45:06 GMT
Those are just kids. Let them be, you were like that I'm sure! I never was a kid, I always was and still am a banana. Kankerbanaan.
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Robodark
Member
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Posts: 681
Registered on: March 2015
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Post by Robodark on Jun 30, 2015 12:46:23 GMT
I never was a kid, I always was and still am a banana. Kankerbanaan. OH NO YOU DIDN'T! KANKERDWERG!
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Post by tjezc☻ on Jun 30, 2015 12:47:53 GMT
Not to justify it at all, and there's a pretty elaborate discussion on that topic elsewhere on the forums, but both words "kanker" (cancer) and "homo" are used the same way as "fucking" and "fuck" without the actual intention of refering to the actual meaning of the words nowadays. I myself call annoying people "flikker" (same as "homo") from time to time without even thinking about it. I know I shouldn't, but it's quite common and as wrong as it seems even socially accepted by the majority. Also I'd like to note that in the south the use of 'kanker' as an additive is much, much less compared to A'dam, R'dam an Utrecht for example. I don't want to start that entire discussion again over here. My point was that overall the Dutch people are openminded about LGBT issues. Ofcourse there will always be exceptions to prove the rule (is that 'van Gaal English'?) It's sad though that that's socially accepted now days, but of course it's totally possible that that's the case because I live in The Hauge I didn't meant it as an argument though. But yeah, a lot of people are open to gays in Holland, what's a good thing of course. ("Van Gaal English"! XD) So you're from The Hague and you claim not to use "kanker" yourself? I'm from Zoetermeer myself and the closer you get to The Hague, the more kankers will be thrown your way I don't mind, because it defines the harsh language we use in the west. I'm kind of proud at that...
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Robodark
Member
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Posts: 681
Registered on: March 2015
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Post by Robodark on Jun 30, 2015 12:56:38 GMT
It's sad though that that's socially accepted now days, but of course it's totally possible that that's the case because I live in The Hauge I didn't meant it as an argument though. But yeah, a lot of people are open to gays in Holland, what's a good thing of course. ("Van Gaal English"! XD) So you're from The Hague and you claim not to use "kanker" yourself? I'm from Zoetermeer myself and the closer you get to The Hague, the more kankers will be thrown your way I don't mind, because it defines the harsh language we use in the west. I'm kind of proud at that... I got really pissed once and said kanker a few times but besides that.. Not really. I do cuss with other stuff though
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mrcleanup
Member
Posts: 383
Registered on: May 2015
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Post by mrcleanup on Jun 30, 2015 13:53:51 GMT
Its..... complicated.... idk if I can even explain the south. I've only lived in the USA for about 7 years and I've never been to the south. It does not matter though, everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I only wish that everybody can understand that love should not be illegal. They can have their opinions but that doesnt make them any less of a piece of shit and I will continue to exercise the right to let them know just how ignorant they are. Im happy for a lot of people but Im not celebrating. Its embarrassing that it took this long and the feeling I have is relief more than anything. Relief that so many of my friends can be recognized as equals in a court of law. Relief that the most important debate during each presidential election wont be basic human rights in "the land of the free". Relief that we can move the fuck on. Now if we can knock out abortion for good maybe this country can progress in other areas of importance such as education. Okay I know I am from Tennessee, probably one of the worst states for being on one side or the other of this conversation. I will not go into too much depth of my beliefs I promise. Living in the south you are most likely going to be raised in the church. Most churches in the south preach the way certain things are wrong in the eyes of the Lord. Well from my experiences I personally lean more towards a philosophy that Gandhi taught, roughly translated, Love the Sinner but Hate the Sin. I know I am far from the norm when it comes to where I live, it is not my place to judge anyone for what they believe to be true. I always tell anyone that I talk to where I live, take care of yourself, live your life happy, and my favorite... Be the bigger person and take the higher road!!! tsunderella (Ch3rryBoyHunter) I say the more power to you for living your life happy! That is what everyone deserves! Trowa some people are very stupid about they go about speaking their beliefs, but respecting their beliefs is a part of living in a free country. You do not have to believe the same things, but not judging, condemning, or shaming others for what they believe is part of that freedom. I am on the same page as you personally, but some things just take time to change.
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Post by Jackimo on Jun 30, 2015 14:14:37 GMT
They can have their opinions but that doesnt make them any less of a piece of shit and I will continue to exercise the right to let them know just how ignorant they are. Im happy for a lot of people but Im not celebrating. Its embarrassing that it took this long and the feeling I have is relief more than anything. Relief that so many of my friends can be recognized as equals in a court of law. Relief that the most important debate during each presidential election wont be basic human rights in "the land of the free". Relief that we can move the fuck on. Now if we can knock out abortion for good maybe this country can progress in other areas of importance such as education. Okay I know I am from Tennessee, probably one of the worst states for being on one side or the other of this conversation. I will not go into too much depth of my beliefs I promise. Living in the south you are most likely going to be raised in the church. Most churches in the south preach the way certain things are wrong in the eyes of the Lord. Well from my experiences I personally lean more towards a philosophy that Gandhi taught, roughly translated, Love the Sinner but Hate the Sin. I know I am far from the norm when it comes to where I live, it is not my place to judge anyone for what they believe to be true. I always tell anyone that I talk to where I live, take care of yourself, live your life happy, and my favorite... Be the bigger person and take the higher road!!! tsunderella (Ch3rryBoyHunter) I say the more power to you for living your life happy! That is what everyone deserves! Trowa some people are very stupid about they go about speaking their beliefs, but respecting their beliefs is a part of living in a free country. You do not have to believe the same things, but not judging, condemning, or shaming others for what they believe is part of that freedom. I am on the same page as you personally, but some things just take time to change. Yeah, we've only had a couple thousand years
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