haydugjr
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Registered on: March 2014
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Post by haydugjr on Jul 4, 2014 21:46:52 GMT
If we're gonna waste our time gathering eight people from two different crews just to race non-contact, why don't we all just hotlap a few tracks on our own time and determine who won based on the lap records?
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Deleted
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Registered on: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 21:50:40 GMT
Could qualify using a playlists final results. BV3 or 5 would do it If we do this then no customs. Would be stupid if someone got the last spot because they happened to have a Massacro for Cherry's track or we ran Sports Classics and someone (read: me) didn't have a Z-type. I think that racers who come unprepared should just roll with the punches and not drag everyone else to their level. If a hockey player showed up to practice without skates, does he sit out or does the coach force everyone to wear sneakers on the ice? I think he stays out for the greater good of the team because regardless of whether or not the home team is wearing sneakers at an actual game, you know the opposition is on skates and trying their damn hardest. The same is true with racing; if we go in with racers who only have stock cars, the other team with customs will have a leg up on us before the race begins.
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Post by Broughy1322 on Jul 4, 2014 23:27:14 GMT
Non-negotiable crew battle rules - A single 8-player (4v4), 6-race playlist to determine the winning crew. - Winning crew = crew with highest number of playlist points in total at the end of the event. - Each race must be at least 14 miles long (set to minimum number of laps to pass 14 mile distance). - 3 races chosen by each crew. At least one must be created by rockstar. - Crew chooses the car class for each specific race. Must choose a different class for each race. - Crew chooses whether each specific race is contact or non-contact (contact setting does not mean race contact is acceptable). - Catch-up, slipstream, wanted levels and traffic all turned off. - Playlist race order: 1,2,2,1,1,2 where 1 = challenger & 2 = challenged crew. - Playlist + ruleset published at least 3 days before the actual event. - One person from team that is challenging hosts. First invites one person from other crew, then once they are both in they simultaneously invite their teammates (to make sure there is no stacking of the grid for user created races)
Negotiable crew battle rules (default choices below, can be discussed between crew captains) - Extra events for other players who want to be involved. Same playlist and rules, but doesn't count as the official crew battle. - Custom cars on, remains same throughout playlist. - Current weather & current time of day, remains same throughout playlist
NoDo specific rules - To get a place in the top 4 to represent the crew in the main battle playlist those interested in doing so simply all jump into the published event playlist and play it with the same ruleset. The top 4 by the end of the playlist become the four for the main event. Others can play in any extra events that may be organised.
That's what I have. Let me know thoughts.
To cover a few points - if it's all set to customs on, you don't have the right car, but still manage to place 4th or higher in the "NoDo shootout" version of the playlist, then you deserve your place. Otherwise you just got unlucky with car/customs choice (obviously as a crew we'd choose the classes that are best for us, but chances are there will always be two super and two sports races per playlist anyway - or we can have free choice of classes and chances are it would be all supers - let me know). Also, there's little point in choosing the NoDo racers who represent the crew in the main event by any other means than racing in the event specific playlist. Those who do best in that with the same rules have the best chance of doing well in the main event. Next, the added emphasis on giving each crew their own choice with their races when it comes to contact/non-contact and car classes, in addition to the actual race choice itself, allows each crew to have at least half the races as they'd prefer. It's then about who can adapt and do better on the races they're less comfortable with, but at least it's even with 3 races from each. 14 miles for each race should ensure something around the 10 minute mark depending on the class and track, which I think is ideal for the playlist (1 hour) and for some decent racing. Not over too quickly, not taking too long. Weather, time of day, and customs on/off is all decided before the playlist and should remain the same throughout. No changing of weather or customs from race to race.
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Post by Renegade1911 on Jul 5, 2014 0:18:13 GMT
Broughy1322 Sounds good. Have you already agreed on this with VCCM? So we can stop talking and get some actual racing going!
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sarconic
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Posts: 73
Registered on: March 2014
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Post by sarconic on Jul 5, 2014 3:37:49 GMT
Negotiable crew battle rules (default choices below, can be discussed between crew captains) - Extra events for other players who want to be involved. Same playlist and rules, but doesn't count as the official crew battle. Hooray! Can I race against their D-class racers?
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haydugjr
Member
Posts: 359
Registered on: March 2014
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Post by haydugjr on Jul 5, 2014 4:16:49 GMT
If we do this then no customs. Would be stupid if someone got the last spot because they happened to have a Massacro for Cherry's track or we ran Sports Classics and someone (read: me) didn't have a Z-type. I think that racers who come unprepared should just roll with the punches and not drag everyone else to their level. If a hockey player showed up to practice without skates, does he sit out or does the coach force everyone to wear sneakers on the ice? I think he stays out for the greater good of the team because regardless of whether or not the home team is wearing sneakers at an actual game, you know the opposition is on skates and trying their damn hardest. The same is true with racing; if we go in with racers who only have stock cars, the other team with customs will have a leg up on us before the race begins. Obviously I didn't mean that we go to the race in stock vehicles. I meant that we qualify in stock vehicles. Your hockey analogy doesn't really fit. It's more like this: Five of your buddies want to figure out who the best driver is. But two of you own faster cars than the other three! The winner won't necessarily be the best if he's in one of the faster cars. What do you do? Go to a go kart track. Or all share one car.
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Deleted
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Registered on: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2014 4:30:28 GMT
I think that racers who come unprepared should just roll with the punches and not drag everyone else to their level. If a hockey player showed up to practice without skates, does he sit out or does the coach force everyone to wear sneakers on the ice? I think he stays out for the greater good of the team because regardless of whether or not the home team is wearing sneakers at an actual game, you know the opposition is on skates and trying their damn hardest. The same is true with racing; if we go in with racers who only have stock cars, the other team with customs will have a leg up on us before the race begins. Obviously I didn't mean that we go to the race in stock vehicles. I meant that we qualify in stock vehicles. Your hockey analogy doesn't really fit. It's more like this: Five of your buddies want to figure out who the best driver is. But two of you own faster cars than the other three! The winner won't necessarily be the best if he's in one of the faster cars. What do you do? Go to a go kart track. Or all share one car. I see my point was lost in translation, so I'll be very blunt this time; qualifying for a custom-on match in stock vehicles is a flawed and ineffective system. If the qualifying match has customs on and the guy driving stock still wins, then feel free to send him into the official race, but to limit the other racers capabilities by making the qualifyer stock only skews the results by ignoring the technology advantage most of the racers have.
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Post by Trowa on Jul 5, 2014 6:05:08 GMT
Obviously I didn't mean that we go to the race in stock vehicles. I meant that we qualify in stock vehicles. Your hockey analogy doesn't really fit. It's more like this: Five of your buddies want to figure out who the best driver is. But two of you own faster cars than the other three! The winner won't necessarily be the best if he's in one of the faster cars. What do you do? Go to a go kart track. Or all share one car. I see my point was lost in translation, so I'll be very blunt this time; qualifying for a custom-on match in stock vehicles is a flawed and stupid system. If the qualifying match has customs on and the guy driving stock still wins, then feel free to send him into the official race, but to limit the other racers capabilities by making the qualifyer stock only skews the results by ignoring the technology advantage most of the racers have. Thats just silly. Should be even playing field. For instance BlueEyedMalice doesnt even own a super but is a very strong racer. With that said he would tell you himself that there isnt a chance in hell that hes going to beat the top NoDo racers in a stock zentorno or entity. Apply that to any other class with some other driver and it becomes clear that your logic is flawed. An even playing field IS required and WILL be used for our qualifier. I dont really see how this can even be debated and why its being debated. Allowing for there to be an advantage in a qualifier makes little to no sense but if all the racers attempting to qualify happen to have custom cars (which in most cases they will since they are entering a competitive race) then we will obviously use customs. If for some reason someone doesnt have a custom in a certain class that we use then we will use stock. Simple as that. If someone qualifies who has no custom in a class picked for the event it should be mandatory that the rectify the situation and purchase one. Although that last bit is debatable imo.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2014 6:51:17 GMT
I see my point was lost in translation, so I'll be very blunt this time; qualifying for a custom-on match in stock vehicles is a flawed and stupid system. If the qualifying match has customs on and the guy driving stock still wins, then feel free to send him into the official race, but to limit the other racers capabilities by making the qualifyer stock only skews the results by ignoring the technology advantage most of the racers have. Thats just silly. Should be even playing field. For instance BlueEyedMalice doesnt even own a super but is a very strong racer. With that said he would tell you himself that there isnt a chance in hell that hes going to beat the top NoDo racers in a stock zentorno or entity. Apply that to any other class with some other driver and it becomes clear that your logic is flawed. An even playing field IS required and WILL be used for our qualifier. I dont really see how this can even be debated and why its being debated. Allowing for there to be an advantage in a qualifier makes little to no sense but if all the racers attempting to qualify happen to have custom cars (which in most cases they will since they are entering a competitive race) then we will obviously use customs. If for some reason someone doesnt have a custom in a certain class that we use then we will use stock. Simple as that. If someone qualifies who has no custom in a class picked for the event it should be mandatory that the rectify the situation and purchase one. Although that last bit is debatable imo. I would be somewhat fine with the situation you described where the winner must have a custom car. The point I was advocating was that a technology advantage is a real part of racing, and to disclude it for the sake of 'equality' is uncompetitive by nature and can lead to our crew being represented by people who aren't the absolute best within our ranks. If you need an example of this, I'd be willing to provide a hypothetical scenario for you: Assume there are two racers, we'll call them Broughy and Trowa for the sake of argument. Now let's assume that when taking a certain line on the track cutting corners, Broughy can achieve a 57.502 in a stock Entity. Trowa, being the skilled racer he is, can complete a lap in one second less while also in a stock Entity, meaning his best lap is a 56.502. Here's the catch: Trowa doesn't have a custom Entity, but Broughy does. Now, Broughy decides to pull out his custom car, and all of a sudden his lap time is reduced to a 54.869. Broughy, having gotten the better lap time, now gets to go to the competition, correct? You would think so, and yet Trowa is the one who gets to go to the competition despite having a higher lap time in the grand scheme of things(a lap time he can't reduce significantly due to the fact he doesn't have a custom vehicle). This problem does solve itself for the most part with your aforementioned forced purchase of a custom car, but if we didn't have that as a solution, similar to my situation at the time of my original post, you would see how problematic the stock qualifyers appear to be. Apply this to any track or car you like, and the notion of an unjust result holds true. Now, reductio ad absurdum would dictate that this is a flawed system without your solution, and simple inferences dictate that "in order to participate, having a custom car is necessary" is a better entrance policy than the as it stands "stock to qualify, custom for the event" is. This is true due to the ever slight person to person difference that can be observed when racers switch from stock to custom and vice versa. Some people handle the difference better than others, so the best way to determine the best racer-car combo is to remove that difference entirely by making the entire qualification process custom only. I'm not affected by the result at the end of the day seeing as stock or not I'll be left in the dust, but I am concerned about the fact that a slower person-car combo can beat its quicker counterpart due to the limits set on the latter.
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Post by Broughy1322 on Jul 5, 2014 7:42:38 GMT
Those wanting to participate need to play the same event playlist with the same ruleset as the main event (so customs on if that's the choice in the main event and with the correct car choices for each race). If someone doesn't have a car for a specific race in that playlist and doesn't want to get one then that's a disadvantage he'll have to carry into qualifying. If he still finishes top 4 in the playlist then he's sorted anyway and we still have our best 4 racers for the event even with a car disadvantage in one race.
Qualifying is easy - you just play the event playlist exactly as it would be played and the top 4 play the main event. Those who do best there will be the best choice for the main event since it will simply a trial run of it. If you don't have the car for qualifying and don't finish in the top four then you wouldn't have the car for the main event either. Also results for a "customs on" playlist can be different given different car choices than for a "customs off" playlist (someone might be awful in the Elegy for example compared to a stock massacro). Not going to force anyone to buy a car they don't want/can't afford. It's up to them whether they buy it and make it through.
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Craig 9876
Member
If you're second, you're only the first in a long line of losers
Posts: 717
Registered on: May 2014
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Post by Craig 9876 on Jul 5, 2014 8:38:55 GMT
Those wanting to participate need to play the same event playlist with the same ruleset as the main event (so customs on if that's the choice in the main event and with the correct car choices for each race). If someone doesn't have a car for a specific race in that playlist and doesn't want to get one then that's a disadvantage he'll have to carry into qualifying. If he still finishes top 4 in the playlist then he's sorted anyway and we still have our best 4 racers for the event even with a car disadvantage in one race. Qualifying is easy - you just play the event playlist exactly as it would be played and the top 4 play the main event. Those who do best there will be the best choice for the main event since it will simply a trial run of it. If you don't have the car for qualifying and don't finish in the top four then you wouldn't have the car for the main event either. Also results for a "customs on" playlist can be different given different car choices than for a "customs off" playlist (someone might be awful in the Elegy for example compared to a stock massacro). Not going to force anyone to buy a car they don't want/can't afford. It's up to them whether they buy it and make it through. When will this qualifying event take place?
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Post by Trowa on Jul 5, 2014 10:23:32 GMT
@alfislegend I think you are overthinking it. You sound like you spent a lot of time on that comment and for that I commend you. In any case the top 4 drivers are going to have a car in every class. Of that Im 99.9% sure of, at least on xbox. I have a pretty good idea of who will win these spots and frankly Im probably not going to be one of them unless I race really well. My best shot is 3rd or 4th and thats entirely dependent on how well everyone else is racing that day. The top 5 drivers in my mind all have a car for every class that will be used and Im not going to name names so dont even ask.
Edit: And just to clarify Im not saying Im a top 5 racer but I do have my moments and could sneak in if others have bad races. Id put myself somewhere in the top 15 or 20 probably honestly. Maybe a bit harsh on myself but I dont think Im very good at all but thanks for the kind words anyways.
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haydugjr
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Posts: 359
Registered on: March 2014
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Post by haydugjr on Jul 5, 2014 13:24:23 GMT
<---- prays for no Sports Classics races
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Post by Jontti500 on Jul 5, 2014 13:59:38 GMT
<---- prays for no Sports Classics races yh, me too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2014 17:36:26 GMT
@alfislegend I think you are overthinking it. You sound like you spent a lot of time on that comment and for that I commend you. In any case the top 4 drivers are going to have a car in every class. Of that Im 99.9% sure of, at least on xbox. I have a pretty good idea of who will win these spots and frankly Im probably not going to be one of them unless I race really well. My best shot is 3rd or 4th and thats entirely dependent on how well everyone else is racing that day. The top 5 drivers in my mind all have a car for every class that will be used and Im not going to name names so dont even ask. Edit: And just to clarify Im not saying Im a top 5 racer but I do have my moments and could sneak in if others have bad races. Id put myself somewhere in the top 15 or 20 probably honestly. Maybe a bit harsh on myself but I dont think Im very good at all but thanks for the kind words anyways. Over thinking things is what I do best.
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