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Post by jeffreyb1990 on Nov 27, 2016 23:54:04 GMT
Lewis did the thing every smart driver would have done. Backing Rosberg up into the other cars was his only chance and they also knew that at Mercedes. So it's just plain stupid that they're acting all surprised during and after the race that he did it. The constructors title wasn't at stake, so there wasn't much to lose. Only Toto Wolff was realistic, but Lowe and Lauda were just naive or stupid.
I'm also still suspecting that Mercedes is extra pleased with Rosberg being world champion, because he's german. I think it's the case for every team that they rather have a driver from the same country becoming world champion.
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Post by endersai on Nov 28, 2016 0:18:27 GMT
The race was midnight - 2am for me so I've only seen post-race videos from BBC and Sky. I'll check autosport now.
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Post by endersai on Nov 28, 2016 0:36:06 GMT
www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127297/wolff-hamilton-has-set-a-precedent"I'm in two minds: one half of me says undermining a structure in public means you're putting yourself before the team - that's very simple," said Wolff after the race. "Anarchy doesn't work in any team or any company. "The other half says it was his only chance of winning the championship at that stage and maybe you cannot demand a racing driver to comply in a situation where his instincts did not make him comply. "It's about finding a solution to solve the problem in the future because a precedent has been set. "Let me sleep over that and come up with a solution tomorrow." When asked if Hamilton could face punishment for ignoring team instructions, Wolff added: "This is something I will keep internal. "I need to form an opinion, which I haven't yet."
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Post by cameronman1329 on Nov 28, 2016 19:31:10 GMT
It's also not the greatest display of sportsmanship. Backing another driver up into opponents is a bit frowned upon. (Not amongst his fans, I guess... ) Together with him not growing tired of emphasising that he lost the title only due to technical failure, he isn't the perfect embassador for the brand Mercedes-Benz right now. And frankly, that's what Merc is paying him for. Because they wouldn't have had any trouble finding another driver to win the title in this car in the last few years. So it's kind if logical that the bosses aren't too pleased with him Verstappen did the same to Vettel in Mexico by backing him up to Ric. Albeit it was only for half a lap, not multiple laps like Hamilton, but he did the same yet no one criticised him. Vettel called it dirty tactics on the podium because he knows how it felt because it happened to him, probably why he didn't try anything too extreme on Nico, as well as being German and not wanting Lewis to tie WDCs. Don't see what Lewis did wrong, any driver would do the same. Prost defended him, the only driver I've seen who didn't agree with Lewis was Mansell on Twitter.
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Post by cameronman1329 on Nov 28, 2016 19:32:54 GMT
FYI I'm not a Lewis fan, although I would rather he won than Rosberg considering I'm British and Lewis was the better driver and just suffered from many mechanical issues. Shame the better driver lost to things out of his hands, but hey, that's Motorsport for you. Will look forward to next season hoping for either Ricciardo or Vettel to beat both of the Mercedes salty twats, but that's very unlikely. But one can hope
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drknut
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Post by drknut on Nov 28, 2016 20:52:07 GMT
yet no one criticised him. I've read plenty of -albeit soft- criticism of that. And regarding all this "the better driver should have won - shame for ALL the technical failures": A) F1 is a technical sport like no other, it's the car that wins races before the driver B) it was ONE major failure this year on the 44 car C) compared over the three years the Merc drivers have been competing for the championship, it's now pretty even on technical failures
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Post by drknut on Nov 28, 2016 20:56:08 GMT
. So it's just plain stupid that they're acting all surprised during and after the race that he did it. It's not that they didn't expect him to, itcs that they agreed team-internal beforehand that it's something the team doesn't want to happen, according to some unnamed team member. (Source auto-motor-sport.de)
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Post by cameronman1329 on Nov 28, 2016 21:14:21 GMT
yet no one criticised him. I've read plenty of -albeit soft- criticism of that. And regarding all this "the better driver should have won - shame for ALL the technical failures": A) F1 is a technical sport like no other, it's the car that wins races before the driver B) it was ONE major failure this year on the 44 car C) compared over the three years the Merc drivers have been competing for the championship, it's now pretty even on technical failures The first 4 races Rosberg won, Hamilton had issues both mechanical and poor luck with other racers colliding, as well as multiple issues throughout (Spa, Baku, etc). Rosberg's only issue was the gearbox issue at Silverstone I think it was. If Lewis' engine didn't blow up he would've won. I accept its part of Motorsport, but you'd find it a hard time to know someone who genuinely thinks Nico is the better driver. As we know the car wins, otherwise it would be a four way battle between Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel and Ricciardo, as they are the 4 best drivers, but that's not how it works.
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Post by drknut on Nov 28, 2016 23:52:54 GMT
Rosberg's only issue was the gearbox issue at Silverstone I think it was. Suspension failure in Spielberg costing him 5 grid places and a faulty turbo in Austin without real consequences. The Baku issue was affecting both drivers equally, only Rosberg solved it in a matter of a few corners. Not that it matters. I really don't get this discussion. Yes, Hamilton is on his good days the better driver, hands down. But Rosberg has taken the fight to him basically every season. It's not that Hamilton was dominating him until now. He was a notch ahead, and still is. But not more than a notch. But does that make Rosberg an undeserved champion? Someone who has constantly been beating world champions (yes, plural) as teammates? I think that's a worthy champion in his own rights, whether or not there might be better drivers, past or present. Was Senna the better driver than Prost? Probably. Does that make Prost an undeserved champion? I hardly think so. On that note I actually think that Hamilton's tactics in the last race have helped to show that Rosberg is no slacker, either. The overtake on Verstappen was first class and withstanding the combined pressure of Hamilton and Vettel without doing something stupid or making mistakes wasn't too shabby, I'd say. And I personally don't think that Hamilton lost this championship with the engine failure. I think he lost it, when he took the season start a notch too easy. He's been on a different level of focus and mindset afterwards.
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Post by endersai on Nov 29, 2016 1:33:39 GMT
The simple reality is that it wasn't a dirty tactic, because it was the only tactic available to someone in a highly competitive, not-really-team sport.
We cannot call Hamilton out for what anyone would have done in the same situation. It's unreasonable and unfair.
We can say Hamilton is the better driver, who had worse reliability than his teammate who was lucky in that regard. Saying this, however, cannot and should not detract from Rosberg's accomplishment. He pushed himself to be 105% of the driver he can be, and didn't make costly mistakes such as crashing in qualifying. He didn't give up after 2 seasons of being beaten and outclassed. He fought with tenacity to ensure this result, and whilst in my view he's not going to win any more titles - the reg changes will open the door to a Ricciardo title first, with the next multi-times world champion being Max Verstappen - he deserves his place in history.
The season is done, and thankfully so is this era of Mercedes domination.
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Post by Tsupernami on Nov 29, 2016 2:00:18 GMT
Also, are the media forgetting what Rosberg did a few years ago in Monaco's qualifying by pretending to out brake himself?
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Post by endersai on Nov 29, 2016 8:00:21 GMT
Joe Saward is simply put, the only blog worth reading on F1. A journalist who hasn't missed a race in 30 years, he's far more experienced than the clickbait fools out there operating aggregate sites. Only James Allen of the BBC comes close to accuracy and readability. PRO TIP: Christian Sylt of Forbes knows fuck all about F1, never read his shit. Here's his thoughts: joesaward.wordpress.com/A little perspective… November 28, 2016 by Joe Saward I have read mammoth piles of horseshit regarding the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix and the way in which Mercedes handled the race. I just don’t see why anyone is upset. At the end of the race a rather dim German stomped past me in the press room, mumbling something obtuse about how Lewis was a “dirty” driver.
Clearly, the man in question understands nothing about the rules of the sport. As Lewis Hamilton pointed out after the race, “we were fighting for the championship. I was in the lead, I control the pace. That’s the rules.”
Lewis is right. Dim Deutsche should go and report on something else.
The way I see it, Lewis did a quite brilliant job. He didn’t need to block. He just slowed the pace and Nico could do nothing but sweat. Even he described Lewis’s tactical driving as “perfect”. It was one of the most remarkable drives I have seen in my 500 Grands Prix. Lewis wanted to win in the right way, but as the laps ticked by, it became clear that the only choice he had left was to back Nico up, into the drivers behind. If he did that, perhaps, there would be a bingle and Nico would be knocked out, or overtaken by both Sebastian Verstappen and Max Verstappen, which would have given Lewis the title. It’s not the best way to win a title, but points are points. And while Lewis did a masterful job, Nico held it together, took the pressure and did nothing stupid. He delivered the goods and so it is fair to say that he too did a masterful job. You could see at the end of the race that Nico was drained. The team got a bit nervous because, in theory at least, Vettel might have passed both of its drivers and won the race. Frankly, when you have won 18 of the 20 races and the Constructors’ title it really make no difference. In fact, another win would cost Mercedes more money becauze every point means that the price of the entry fee goes up. Getting more points is utterly irrelevant when are already champion. The payout does not change. So, it would perhaps have been better for Mercedes to have said nothing at all, or even smarter to have said: “Just go racing boys.” That would have been the best strategy of them all… That way, people wwould not be saying that the team favoured Nico this year.
Anyway, the argument that Lewis did something wrong is for journalists versed in golf. The team finished 1-2. An that was that… To try to turn this into a story that Lewis is going to quit the team is as dim as the stomping German. Rule number one in Formula 1 is that you never give up a competitive car. If you think that there is a more competitive car, that’s fine. It’s a risk, but to lose a drive that wins races without a damned good reason is just stupidity, or ego with wings.
To be fair to Mercedes, the team has always been very fair to the drivers.
“We could have told them who should win, as many teams have done in the past,” said team boss Toto Wolff. “But we don’t do that and we have coped quite well with the situation in the last few years.”
This is the genius of the Mercedes strategy. It’s sporting. Just as Williams was sporting back in 1986 when it let its two drivers fight and McLaren’s Alain Prost nicked the world title. That really didn’t matter, because teams don’t get paid on the result of the Drivers’ title. The money comes from the Constructors’title. McLaren was just as sporting in numerous seasons when it allowed its drivers to fight. OK, it is not 100 efficiency, but it is sport and clever people realise the value of the difference.
The very first fight I had with Jean Todt (and there have been a few) was at a splendid place called Gao, on the banks of the Niger River in Niger. Monsieur T decided that to make sure that one of his drivers won the Paris-Dakar Rally, he would stop them competing by tossing a coin. I believe he still has the coin, transformed into a key ring.
I don’t think I called Jean any names on that occasion, but I am pretty sure that I told him that he was not a sportsman. I understand why he did what he did, but the pursuit of efficiency is not always the right answer. This is what I wrote at the time: “The race still had six days to run but Peugeot’s marketing policies were considered more important than the sport. The yes-men with the briefcases and corporate pie charts won the Paris-Dakar Rally. The adventurers were overshadowed by the pale bureaucrats in Paris. Out in the desert, Jacky Ickx and Ari Vatanen had been fighting each other hard to gain an upper hand. Vatanen had rolled his Peugeot 405 before Gao. For Todt and his organisation, a truce had to be called between his racing star and his rallying ace. And so Todt tossed a 10 franc piece into the air: heads would mean victory for Vatanen; tails would give the win to Ickx.
“Vatanen has won,” said Todt, playing God.
“C’est la vie,” shrugged Ickx, playing the professional
“I didn’t want to settle it in that way,” said Vatanen, not wanting to play the game.
It was, in all ways, an unsatisfactory way to settle the outcome of the last true motor sporting adventure. Both drivers would have preferred to fight it out, away in the desert, without external dictates. Being professionals, they said nothing, but the hurt shone from each. These are not politicians, they are sportsmen and their great adventure had been tarnished; sacrificed on the altar of commercialism. It left a bitter taste in the mouth, far removed from the enthusiasm of which both Ickx and Vatanen had spoken in the days leading up to Gao.”
So let’s not knock Mercedes. Let us praise them. Winning 19 of 21 races is mighty. McLaren did 15 out of 16 in 1988. Ferrari’s best (under Monsieur Efficiency) in the Schumacher era was 15 out of 18 in 2004 and 15 our of 17 in 2002. Red Bull didn’t even get into the ballpark (so, don’t lecture about team orders, Christian). Ferrari dictated who won. Red Bull too. Mercedes, McLaren and Williams never did. They were sportsmen.
And that is why this season was fab. Because you didn’t know who was going to win…
Neither driver in Abu Dhabi expressed anything that suggested that he felt that there was anything unfair, although some media were trying to stir up a storm. Nico was drained by the end. It was, he said, the most intense race he had ever had. But you know what? He walked through the fire. You could not fault either driver – unless you don’t understand motor racing. When all is said and done, both drivers did everything they could to win. They did it fairly. They fought like giants and after it was all done, they showed respect for one another. Nico took the pressure and won the title. His steely determination and his absolute refusal to accept defeat was, to borrow his favourite word “Awesome!” Lewis knocked him down and he got up again.
So when you boil it all down. Appreciate what we have, because what we have right now is great.
Bravo Nico. Bravo Lewis. Bravo Mercedes. And bravo F1…
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Post by drknut on Nov 29, 2016 8:16:50 GMT
How can the media remember what happened in your head, mate?
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Post by Tsupernami on Nov 29, 2016 10:18:57 GMT
How can the media remember what happened in your head, mate? Was that directed at me? You didn't make it clear. I'm busy reading Endersai's wall of text. I'll be back in an hour.
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Post by cameronman1329 on Nov 29, 2016 12:05:27 GMT
Ender: Danny Ric is still fairly young at 27, by the time Verstappen improves enough to be better, Red Bull may not be the best team to win titles. Vettel is still young, by the time Verstappen is the best left of the current drivers there may be new drivers who are better. You never know in F1. I can't say for certain Max will even win a single WDC let alone multiple. Whilst he's the best young driver you never know who is going to come along in a few years time. Someone new may join who's better. For now all I'll say is I see Mercedes winning next year but it's too uncertain to say any further into the future.
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