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Post by endersai on Nov 29, 2016 20:55:12 GMT
Ender: Danny Ric is still fairly young at 27, by the time Verstappen improves enough to be better, Red Bull may not be the best team to win titles. Vettel is still young, by the time Verstappen is the best left of the current drivers there may be new drivers who are better. You never know in F1. I can't say for certain Max will even win a single WDC let alone multiple. Whilst he's the best young driver you never know who is going to come along in a few years time. Someone new may join who's better. For now all I'll say is I see Mercedes winning next year but it's too uncertain to say any further into the future. With the dominance of the Mercedes engine, and the resources at Maranello (and its problematic culture of fear), Red Bull managed as follows:
2014 - finished second behind Mercedes. Danny Ric finishes in 3rd, behind Hamilton and Rosberg, and ahead of 4x WDC Sebastian Vettel (5th, behind Valtteri Bottas). Red Bull - through Ricciardo - take all 3 of the non-Mercedes wins that season.
2015 - Woeful season with hugely underpowered engine. Red Bull finish 4th, with Kyvat and Ricciardo struggling in the car.
2016 - with the Renault engine rebranded TAG-Heuer, Red Bull finish 2nd again. Ricciardo and Verstappen take the only non-Mercedes wins. Ricciardo is 3rd again, Verstappen 5th.
Now we know Red Bull's down on power, and they've basically made up for it with the best chassis on the grid and the best two drivers. Their strength is aerodynamics, thanks to Adrian Newey.
2017 comes around and we're looking at substantial changes to the rules which favour aero - and nobody is a better aerodynamicist than Adrian Newey.
Tyres - 60mm wider at front, 80mm wider at rear for enhanced mechanical grip Suspension - raised to 2000mm, with +/- 10degress of profile incidence Front wing - 150mm wider at 1800mm span, with new shape Rear wing - 200mm wider, 150mm lower. Body - max width 200mm wider, at 1600mm Front wheels - reduced exclusion zone leading to larger bargeboards
You can see a modified 2015 Ferrari set up for 2017 regs here:
All of this points in no uncertain terms to the words "Red" and "Bull" and "Newey" and "Shoey" and "Oranje!"
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Post by cameronman1329 on Nov 29, 2016 22:39:14 GMT
The best two drivers?! Yes Ricciardo and Verstappen are very good but they aren't the best two. Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel are better. Maybe you could argue Ricciardo is better than Vettel, but not Verstappen. And definitely not better than Hamilton and Alonso.
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ReRoKo24
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Post by ReRoKo24 on Dec 1, 2016 19:50:52 GMT
Ender: Danny Ric is still fairly young at 27, by the time Verstappen improves enough to be better, Red Bull may not be the best team to win titles. Vettel is still young, by the time Verstappen is the best left of the current drivers there may be new drivers who are better. You never know in F1. I can't say for certain Max will even win a single WDC let alone multiple. Whilst he's the best young driver you never know who is going to come along in a few years time. Someone new may join who's better. For now all I'll say is I see Mercedes winning next year but it's too uncertain to say any further into the future. With the dominance of the Mercedes engine, and the resources at Maranello (and its problematic culture of fear), Red Bull managed as follows:
2014 - finished second behind Mercedes. Danny Ric finishes in 3rd, behind Hamilton and Rosberg, and ahead of 4x WDC Sebastian Vettel (5th, behind Valtteri Bottas). Red Bull - through Ricciardo - take all 3 of the non-Mercedes wins that season.
2015 - Woeful season with hugely underpowered engine. Red Bull finish 4th, with Kyvat and Ricciardo struggling in the car.
2016 - with the Renault engine rebranded TAG-Heuer, Red Bull finish 2nd again. Ricciardo and Verstappen take the only non-Mercedes wins. Ricciardo is 3rd again, Verstappen 5th.
Now we know Red Bull's down on power, and they've basically made up for it with the best chassis on the grid and the best two drivers. Their strength is aerodynamics, thanks to Adrian Newey.
2017 comes around and we're looking at substantial changes to the rules which favour aero - and nobody is a better aerodynamicist than Adrian Newey.
Tyres - 60mm wider at front, 80mm wider at rear for enhanced mechanical grip Suspension - raised to 2000mm, with +/- 10degress of profile incidence Front wing - 150mm wider at 1800mm span, with new shape Rear wing - 200mm wider, 150mm lower. Body - max width 200mm wider, at 1600mm Front wheels - reduced exclusion zone leading to larger bargeboards
You can see a modified 2015 Ferrari set up for 2017 regs here:
All of this points in no uncertain terms to the words "Red" and "Bull" and "Newey" and "Shoey" and "Oranje!"
Jezus, the difference in tyre width is truly huge. Looks great! Cars will look much nicer next season. Here's another shot of that modified Ferrari.
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Post by endersai on Dec 1, 2016 21:34:29 GMT
The best two drivers?! Yes Ricciardo and Verstappen are very good but they aren't the best two. Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel are better. Maybe you could argue Ricciardo is better than Vettel, but not Verstappen. And definitely not better than Hamilton and Alonso.
Alonso is my age, and whilst Ron Dennis was optimistic about McLaren-Honda's future the details of his failures in the post-Whitmarsh era that Joe Saward highlighted on the latest Sidepodcast episode are worrying. So basically Fernando's time at F1 is measured in years left, on most of one hand.
Vettel has learned that Ferrari sans Ross Brawn and Jean Todt, acting as an insulating buffer between Fiat SpA et al and the team, is not a great place to be. Aero is key next year. The #1 aero man is Adrian Newey. The #2 aero man was James Allison, and they sacked him.
And Hamilton? The assessment of his former teammate, and driver widely ranked as best on the grid - as well as one of your list, Fernando Alonso, is that Ricciardo is the best driver on the grid. Soooo...
www.jamesallenonf1.com/2016/11/fernando-alonso-ranks-daniel-ricciardo-as-the-best-current-f1-driver/
"βI would say Ricciardo right now because in the way he approaches racing heβs always very committed to everything he does. On the track you cannot see any mistakes when you are together with him. In the overtaking manoeuvres probably he is the best out there. When he commits to one movement, 99 per cent [of the time] he will achieve the result that he wanted.
Obviously in 2014 together with Vettel, it was an amazing performance that he showed and he was way ahead of Vettel in every single point β in the driving, in the approach, in the starts, in the pitstops, in the overtaking. He was beating Vettel so easily, so I have to say that he would be right now my choice."
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Tsupernami
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Post by Tsupernami on Dec 1, 2016 21:46:50 GMT
Newey is taking more of a backseat role rather than designing cars. He will oversee the aero designs, but not actually do them himself. Or at least that's what I thought.
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Post by jeffreyb1990 on Dec 1, 2016 23:08:30 GMT
The best drivers this season according to the team bosses: www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127328And you're right Tsupernami. Newey has a more supervising role now. Btw I think that Hamilton made one mistake in his futher flawless tactical performance in the last race. If he would've managed to get out of DRS range for Rosberg in the last lap, I'm quite sure Vettel would've passed Rosberg. Obviously that battle also might had helped Verstappen to pass Rosberg.
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Tsupernami
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Post by Tsupernami on Dec 2, 2016 1:32:23 GMT
The best drivers this season according to the team bosses: www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127328And you're right Tsupernami. Newey has a more supervising role now. Btw I think that Hamilton made one mistake in his futher flawless tactical performance in the last race. If he would've managed to get out of DRS range for Rosberg in the last lap, I'm quite sure Vettel would've passed Rosberg. Obviously that battle also might had helped Verstappen to pass Rosberg. But how much was he also slowing him down in the corners to allow Vettel to stay in range?
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Post by endersai on Dec 2, 2016 1:52:28 GMT
No, Newey's back involved now. He's apparently invigorated by the whole thing.
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Tsupernami
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Post by Tsupernami on Dec 2, 2016 13:22:33 GMT
Rosberg has retired
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ReRoKo24
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Post by ReRoKo24 on Dec 2, 2016 14:14:03 GMT
Well, that came out of the blue. He probably knew it was highly unlikely for him to ever be champ again, he has money for a few generations, he wants to be with his family more and just relax. Who can blame him.
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drknut
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Post by drknut on Dec 2, 2016 15:13:38 GMT
Sad news indeed. A true gentleman driver is leaving the stage. However, his reasoning and motivations demand the highest respect in my eyes. He probably knew it was highly unlikely for him to ever be champ again, It must truely hurt that your adored hero, who will never know that you exist -or as a matter of fact even truly care, has been bested by a lesser. I see it the other way around, Nico Rosberg has given the chance to prove his critics wrong a pass. Probably because he -like a koala in the rain doesn't give a fuck
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Post by jeffreyb1990 on Dec 2, 2016 15:15:56 GMT
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Post by jeffreyb1990 on Dec 2, 2016 15:52:38 GMT
Come on drknut, you have to agree that Rosberg doesn't have the natural talent Hamilton, Ricciardo, Verstappen, Vettel and Alonso have. He did a great job this year, but still needed some luck to win the title.
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Post by Benimi on Dec 2, 2016 15:58:19 GMT
So, Hamilton gets the #0 car now? Oh wait old rule. Just wave and smile.
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Post by endersai on Dec 2, 2016 19:26:47 GMT
I suspect Nico's done a James Hunt and wanted to win one title, and that's his motivation gone.
He grew up rich. What hunger can he have left?
I think it's the right decision for him.
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