gogorm
Member
Posts: 41
Registered on: April 2016
|
Post by gogorm on Jun 24, 2016 19:26:30 GMT
As a non british guy, my point of view: I dont think the point is what is going to happen if brexit, how it will better the uk social comfort, or the risks.
I feel that many people in that country think that are "better" people than spanish, italians, turkish... and that is the point, the idea of getting your own benefit and dont care about the rest of the community. You only have to read the UK press, plenty of this kind of posts. I think that leaving EU for getting better economic, social or whatever conditions is a good reason for voting leave. However, this is not the way what the future should follow. It promotes non-equality, gets bigger diferences between cultures, and finally (and unfortunately not easy to avoid), it will promote hate in some part of the population (UK and outside too). So those are the reason which makes me think that voting leave is not as moral as could be.
With this, I think UK society maybe can own more cultural, economic or whatever level than other countrys, but I dont think that it is enough reason for setting them aside. Maybe it is a selfish thinking, a selfish UK?
Maybe my English is not perfect, sorry:)
|
|
lzz411
Member
The internal struggle of pizza vs. cuts
Posts: 157
Registered on: March 2015
|
Post by lzz411 on Jun 24, 2016 19:32:54 GMT
gogorm the sun and mirror are not at all representative of the uk as a whole. That'd be like talking to a few Trump supporters and basing your views of all America on that.
|
|
gogorm
Member
Posts: 41
Registered on: April 2016
|
Post by gogorm on Jun 24, 2016 19:39:13 GMT
Dont get that point of what I really said. I dont care about sun or mirror or times or whatelse. Im talking about ideas. Now better
|
|
blowntyre
Member
You're a wazzock.
Posts: 606
Registered on: July 2014
PSN ID: BlownTyre
Social Club: BlownTyre
Discord: BlownTyre/Will#1119
|
Post by blowntyre on Jun 24, 2016 19:45:49 GMT
I voted to leave the EU. The idea that voting leave makes me a racist or a xenophobe is untrue. My decision was based on a variety of different factors, including immigration but also the state of the EU itself. The EU is a great concept but it has been poorly executed. People that we do not get to vote in, decide approximately 20% of our laws - that is too much considering these people do not live in the UK, and perhaps they may have never been to the UK. With regards to the matter of immigration, I am pro-immigration, but we need people that come over for a job/career/study and not for living off the state. It is an absolute shame that David Cameron has decided to resign from the position of Prime Minister. Yes, I did not agree with most of his policies, but some of the policies such as his push to get the Gay Marriage Bill through the House of Commons, even with major disagreement from his fellow Tories. I respect Cameron massively and whoever replaces him will have an extremely difficult task of living up to what Cameron did. I respect people that are passionate about which way they voted, no matter what the outcome was. To try and force another referendum up until the "Remain" camp get what they want is absolutely absurd. The majority voted for leaving the EU, and therefore we should do so. We can only go on from here and make our country as great as it possibly can be. And to those whom say "I won't take you seriously anymore" or "It isn't fair that we're leaving" - Fuck You. It was a fair and democratic vote. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean you have to be an immature little twerp.
|
|
paulmcfc
Member
Posts: 55
Registered on: February 2016
|
Post by paulmcfc on Jun 24, 2016 19:46:18 GMT
Seeing a lot of posts on here that it is the older generation who have caused us to leave.
It is impossible to know this as it was a secret ballot.
You are basing this assumption on those stupid poll graphs which have no factual basis. Need I remind you that the closing polls last night had Remain winning
|
|
gogorm
Member
Posts: 41
Registered on: April 2016
|
Post by gogorm on Jun 24, 2016 20:01:54 GMT
I didnt talk about xenophobe or racism. I dont know about Cameron, or anything else. I just gave my pov as an outsider. That is the image that UK has outside. I even did not valuate if it is a good decision. I only said that the reason of leaving should not be thinking in own benefit exclusively, and blame other countrys or UE about all, and maybe is not your case, actually I dont care, but I can read a lot of people giving this reason. Analagously, if you are in a racer lobby with some random, of course you want them out, but it would be better to get them fair and improving, and sometimes it works. At least I try
|
|
blowntyre
Member
You're a wazzock.
Posts: 606
Registered on: July 2014
PSN ID: BlownTyre
Social Club: BlownTyre
Discord: BlownTyre/Will#1119
|
Post by blowntyre on Jun 24, 2016 21:59:02 GMT
I didnt talk about xenophobe or racism. I dont know about Cameron, or anything else. I just gave my pov as an outsider. That is the image that UK has outside. I even did not valuate if it is a good decision. I only said that the reason of leaving should not be thinking in own benefit exclusively, and blame other countrys or UE about all, and maybe is not your case, actually I dont care, but I can read a lot of people giving this reason. Analagously, if you are in a racer lobby with some random, of course you want them out, but it would be better to get them fair and improving, and sometimes it works. At least I try I was not directing it specifically at you! In real life, I have been called a racist simply because I voted leave...which doesn't justify being called racist. I voted out because I am anti-EU and not anti-Europeans. I completely understand your point of view however! ☺
|
|
gogorm
Member
Posts: 41
Registered on: April 2016
|
Post by gogorm on Jun 24, 2016 22:30:37 GMT
Yeah that sounds disgusting. Not everybody is respectful.
Now I would like to pose a question:
On the one hand, critical decisions like Brexit should be voted in a referendum, so such importan things affect everybody and all the people should give opinions.
On the other hand, an intelligent society trust in the experts for taking those decisions.
Its known that there are much more ignorant people than cultivated, also TV dont helps at all, so is necessary to consult everything? As for an engineer, he dont subject to referendum his structural calculations between the workers and bricklayers, neither a surgeon.
Would be better not counting opinions, but weigh them?
|
|
|
Post by Daleks (@darkalex45) on Jun 25, 2016 0:07:04 GMT
So leave voters, you just seem to vaguely predict the future in a confident way. What is a very clear and guranteed upside right now or that will come? I'm seeing a lot of 'its going to be okay' with no facts at all to support. If I did miss one I'm sorry but I do not see anything.
I'm not denying, I'm not saying that things will not be okay but your arguments are not convincing to be more right.
|
|
|
Post by Daleks (@darkalex45) on Jun 25, 2016 0:15:00 GMT
Sometimes you must walk through a storm to reach a better place. 1.Reading all these comments about how much trouble the UK will be in, all from people who live seemingly outiside of the UK, what do you actually know? You just know what the remain campaign has smothered us in these last few months: scaremongering. It was their favourite tool and I think that's why they lost in the end. Nobody with a bit of life experience and rational thinking appreciates these underhand tactics. It will not be the end of the world. 2.Ask any highly successful person about what risks they had to take to get there. No doubt they had people telling them not to do it, it's too risky, etc. That's what separates somebody from being successful and being average. You need to take risks. 1. So the fact that the leave campaign has lied and taken back all its gurantees just a few hours after the vote has no effect on you? 2. Yeah its true, but its a risk that can affect millions of lives. Unnecesary risk just to be 'better'. Wasn't being good good enough? Isn't the possibility of ruining a nice stability just to do a bit better too small for such a big risk? Its honestly not much about the country anymore but about its people. I should stop getting involved in stuff like this because I'm not good enough at english to keep such things up
|
|
blowntyre
Member
You're a wazzock.
Posts: 606
Registered on: July 2014
PSN ID: BlownTyre
Social Club: BlownTyre
Discord: BlownTyre/Will#1119
|
Post by blowntyre on Jun 25, 2016 6:58:15 GMT
Yeah that sounds disgusting. Not everybody is respectful. Now I would like to pose a question: On the one hand, critical decisions like Brexit should be voted in a referendum, so such importan things affect everybody and all the people should give opinions. On the other hand, an intelligent society trust in the experts for taking those decisions. Its known that there are much more ignorant people than cultivated, also TV dont helps at all, so is necessary to consult everything? As for an engineer, he dont subject to referendum his structural calculations between the workers and bricklayers, neither a surgeon. Would be better not counting opinions, but weigh them? This referendum was personal for a lot of people. People are fed up with big banks and big businesses making their decisions for them. To be honest, this decision goes all the way back to the 1970s when we initially joined the EU. It has changed so much since then yet we have not had the right to decide whether we want to stay a member of it or not.
|
|
|
Post by cameronman1329 on Jun 25, 2016 9:36:03 GMT
apologies in advance if this is long, would rather write it at once than in separate posts.
I voted to remain. I didn't listen to the debates, media, social media, etc. I based my vote on unbiased information from reports and experts in this field (mostly received from uni work and lecturers since I'm studying Geography and Geopolitics). For me, leaving is the wrong choice, when every person I know who's job is in the field of economics and/or politics says to remain it kind of speaks for itself. It looks like fear/old fashioned thought won this election looking at the demographics but that's democracy. If everyone voted it may be different but it is what it is.
Seen people complaining that social media is full of people giving opinions when they're not experts. Politics affects us all, so anyone has a right to give their opinion as long as they keep it respectful. Those who voted leave are getting a lot of abuse, which goes too far. I disagree and have said rude things but nothing malicious, whereas some (referring to random people on Twitter, no one here) are going too far. I hope this doesn't get out of control.
As for the reaction since the result. Farage admitting the NHS policy was a mistake. The economic impacts are greater than expected, leave campaigners admitting leaving won't solve immigration problems, it shows how not just them, but both sides have lied.
I feel Cameron is a scapegoat. He's done a great job during his time in a difficult situation, although I think he shouldn't have agreed to have this vote, people wanted it.
Irony many have voted leave due to their personal situation of financial difficulty, but leaving is making it worse. And the fact we have undergone austerity to keep our AAA credit rating and now we are set to lose it, is just a kick in the shin. All the hard work and recovery to get out of the crash is being undone.
However, it's a long time before we leave. Maybe a couple years. It could go many ways. There may be another vote with enough public support. EU terms may change that make us stay. We may end up not leaving. Very unlikely at this point. We may leave and make it on our own. Or others may follow (Denmark especially, as well as potentially France, Netherlands, Italy, Greece). We may see a new EU completely.
Either way, we need to pull together and get through this. China and Japan have already stated they want to have bigger trade agreements with GB, and we are (may not be for long) the financial global centre with London. It isn't a disaster it will just take a lot of work. As much as I am unhappy with this (especially since I have friend who moved here thanks to the EU) we've got to make the best of this.
tl;dr Unhappy with the result. Not the end of the world. Stop blaming Cameron and no one else. Try and stay positive as we can get through this, and by we I mean the world as everyone is affected by this.
|
|
JamieJones77
Member
Posts: 2,321
Registered on: February 2015
PSN ID: jamiejones77
Social Club: jamiejones77
|
Post by JamieJones77 on Jun 25, 2016 11:11:22 GMT
Sometimes you must walk through a storm to reach a better place. 1.Reading all these comments about how much trouble the UK will be in, all from people who live seemingly outiside of the UK, what do you actually know? You just know what the remain campaign has smothered us in these last few months: scaremongering. It was their favourite tool and I think that's why they lost in the end. Nobody with a bit of life experience and rational thinking appreciates these underhand tactics. It will not be the end of the world. 2.Ask any highly successful person about what risks they had to take to get there. No doubt they had people telling them not to do it, it's too risky, etc. That's what separates somebody from being successful and being average. You need to take risks. 1. So the fact that the leave campaign has lied and taken back all its gurantees just a few hours after the vote has no effect on you? 2. Yeah its true, but its a risk that can affect millions of lives. Unnecesary risk just to be 'better'. Wasn't being good good enough? Isn't the possibility of ruining a nice stability just to do a bit better too small for such a big risk? Its honestly not much about the country anymore but about its people. I should stop getting involved in stuff like this because I'm not good enough at english to keep such things up take it you've forgotten all the lies David Cameron told us?
|
|
|
Post by Daleks (@darkalex45) on Jun 25, 2016 12:09:17 GMT
1. So the fact that the leave campaign has lied and taken back all its gurantees just a few hours after the vote has no effect on you? 2. Yeah its true, but its a risk that can affect millions of lives. Unnecesary risk just to be 'better'. Wasn't being good good enough? Isn't the possibility of ruining a nice stability just to do a bit better too small for such a big risk? Its honestly not much about the country anymore but about its people. I should stop getting involved in stuff like this because I'm not good enough at english to keep such things up take it you've forgotten all the lies David Cameron told us? Never supported David Cameron much. Only gained respect for him after blowntyre told some good stuff about him. Honestly don't know what lies he told when it comes to the remain campaign. Remain campaign also told some lies but I do not know the exact lies now and I seemed to just ignore them when I wrote that post so my fault, sorry, seemed like a bit too biased. Honestly brexit discussion is tiring now and I can not bother researching anymore of it and besides I'm shit at keeping up arguments cuz I have a natural ability to be shit at words so I'll give up trying to do anything. But I just want to know one thing still, I'll quote the question again. if someone could answer this it would be great so I can atleast understand you people better. Understanding eachother is important for solving a debate, right?
|
|
Ishan
Member
Posts: 1,805
Registered on: July 2014
PSN ID: ishan826
Social Club: Ishan826
Discord: Ishan#8826
|
Post by Ishan on Jun 25, 2016 13:53:48 GMT
Looks like British English has only three vowels now... E and U left i'll leave now
|
|