StudentDriver447
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Offroader and classic car enthusiast.
Posts: 75
Registered on: September 2017
PSN ID: PrimePilot447
Steam: [MNI] Bismarck
Social Club: PrimePilot447
Discord: Aquaphobic#8109
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Post by StudentDriver447 on Sept 25, 2017 5:38:50 GMT
So me and a friend did some rigorous offroading, me using the Baller LE and him using his Rancher XL. After hauling a** around Mt. Josiah and Tongva Hills, we decided to navigate down a bumpy trail of very shallow water and a good amount of mud. To give a sense of depth, only 1/3 of our brake discs were submerged. After quite some time, about 2/3 of the way down, continously following the tiny strip of shallow water, our engines hydrolocked. The Rancher stalled first, and a few seconds later, my Baller did as well. How on earth did we hydrolock, when the water was far from even touching our grilles? So that brings the question:
How does water hydrolock an engine in GTA physics?
Is it through the grille (which is the commonly accepted reason), or does it simply stall the engine based on a formula of water depth vs time spent in said water? Or does it depend on the vehicle's intake location, which I doubt R* specifies since they could simply use the grille, or could it be related to the exhaust tip entrance height, as the exhaust could be submerged in shallow water?
I'd like to discuss this with fellow offroaders.
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Hystery
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Posts: 556
Registered on: August 2016
Steam: DraconisRex
Social Club: Hystery
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Post by Hystery on Sept 25, 2017 8:45:37 GMT
The better question is: how do GTA physics.
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StudentDriver447
Member
Offroader and classic car enthusiast.
Posts: 75
Registered on: September 2017
PSN ID: PrimePilot447
Steam: [MNI] Bismarck
Social Club: PrimePilot447
Discord: Aquaphobic#8109
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Post by StudentDriver447 on Sept 25, 2017 11:15:43 GMT
The better question is: how do GTA physics. I thought that would be already known by this time, since GTA launched 4 years ago XD
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Post by aichiyota on Sept 25, 2017 11:24:04 GMT
Had the same issue on the weekend with my car tires barely touching the water
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StudentDriver447
Member
Offroader and classic car enthusiast.
Posts: 75
Registered on: September 2017
PSN ID: PrimePilot447
Steam: [MNI] Bismarck
Social Club: PrimePilot447
Discord: Aquaphobic#8109
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Post by StudentDriver447 on Sept 26, 2017 3:28:11 GMT
Had the same issue on the weekend with my car tires barely touching the water Which vehicle were you using? And which trail were you on?
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justinlynch3
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Posts: 966
Registered on: January 2016
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Post by justinlynch3 on Oct 5, 2017 4:22:19 GMT
Shallow water is fucked in GTA.
So a MOC semi can't withstand this
But the same damn truck can go through this?
And yes when my friend jumped in the cab, we followed that river right out to the end.
So how in the world does that even happen?
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StudentDriver447
Member
Offroader and classic car enthusiast.
Posts: 75
Registered on: September 2017
PSN ID: PrimePilot447
Steam: [MNI] Bismarck
Social Club: PrimePilot447
Discord: Aquaphobic#8109
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Post by StudentDriver447 on Oct 5, 2017 18:33:00 GMT
Shallow water is fucked in GTA. So a MOC semi can't withstand this But the same damn truck can go through this? And yes when my friend jumped in the cab, we followed that river right out to the end. So how in the world does that even happen? MOC is supposed to have a LOT of water intake resistance, almost as if it had a snorkel like the Half-Track. Water physics in GTA V tend to be completely fine (go grille-deep and you're done for, reduced speed, etc.) So imma guess that the physics tend to "choke" at times and decide to hydrolock your motor as long as you're on water. However it could be that it is easier to hydrolock a vehicle that has already been through a lot. Despite damage in GTA being a "damage model", at the core code of it "hitpoint" system is still being used (thanks to certain trainers and menus I've worked with, I noticed such) for Engine, Body, and Fuel tank respectively and separately. Engine is probably the health/hitpoint value that is being tweaked during water cruises in land vehicles, excluding water puddles formed by rainy weather. Fuel tank health value usually correlates to Engine health value, although it shouldnt matter in Online mode as fuel can only leak from a car in Storymode, and the vehicle is subject to explosion if Fuel tank health value is critical or zero. Body health value cannot be the case as well, as it only gets reduced by gashes or collisions and dents. In short, water resistance in land vehicles is weakened based on prior damage via collision or combat in said vehicle, or is at least safe to assume. In any case, is it better to go through shallow water fast or slowly? P.S. It really is "bigger they are harder they fall" for offroading vehicles in GTA. Cheap ones like the Rebel, Sandking, or any SUV for that matter have relatively cheap insurance when they break, but for Trophy Trucks, Insurgents and Nightsharks, it can get pricey, and for the Pegasus offroaders (June and Marshall/Liberator), the replacement vehicle is miles away from you.
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justinlynch3
Member
What do I enter in here? Please god somebody tell me what to enter in here.
Posts: 966
Registered on: January 2016
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Post by justinlynch3 on Oct 6, 2017 2:49:11 GMT
Shallow water is fucked in GTA. So a MOC semi can't withstand this But the same damn truck can go through this? And yes when my friend jumped in the cab, we followed that river right out to the end. So how in the world does that even happen? MOC is supposed to have a LOT of water intake resistance, almost as if it had a snorkel like the Half-Track. Water physics in GTA V tend to be completely fine (go grille-deep and you're done for, reduced speed, etc.) So imma guess that the physics tend to "choke" at times and decide to hydrolock your motor as long as you're on water. However it could be that it is easier to hydrolock a vehicle that has already been through a lot. Despite damage in GTA being a "damage model", at the core code of it "hitpoint" system is still being used (thanks to certain trainers and menus I've worked with, I noticed such) for Engine, Body, and Fuel tank respectively and separately. Engine is probably the health/hitpoint value that is being tweaked during water cruises in land vehicles, excluding water puddles formed by rainy weather. Fuel tank health value usually correlates to Engine health value, although it shouldnt matter in Online mode as fuel can only leak from a car in Storymode, and the vehicle is subject to explosion if Fuel tank health value is critical or zero. Body health value cannot be the case as well, as it only gets reduced by gashes or collisions and dents. In short, water resistance in land vehicles is weakened based on prior damage via collision or combat in said vehicle, or is at least safe to assume. In any case, is it better to go through shallow water fast or slowly? P.S. It really is "bigger they are harder they fall" for offroading vehicles in GTA. Cheap ones like the Rebel, Sandking, or any SUV for that matter have relatively cheap insurance when they break, but for Trophy Trucks, Insurgents and Nightsharks, it can get pricey, and for the Pegasus offroaders (June and Marshall/Liberator), the replacement vehicle is miles away from you. Neither vehicle had prior damage. In the first video I believe I was on route to my Pegasus Insurgent Pickup so I could turn it into the PV version, the MOC was perfectly fine but died in that extremely shallow water crossing. The second video me and a friend was just messing around, and that MOC ran the entire length of that deep river, at high speed when we got going, and ran until the river dropped out into the ocean. Do note that in that second video we not reverse, we went forward through the entire length of the water way. So it wasn't prior damage or the speed. Shallow water just seems to be buggy. Another spot is when your following that shallow creek up towards the wall of damn. I've drown vehicles in that to, vehicles that I damn well know via prior off roading adventures can go much deeper. There is definitely something not right with shallow water in this game, in my opinion.
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StudentDriver447
Member
Offroader and classic car enthusiast.
Posts: 75
Registered on: September 2017
PSN ID: PrimePilot447
Steam: [MNI] Bismarck
Social Club: PrimePilot447
Discord: Aquaphobic#8109
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Post by StudentDriver447 on Oct 6, 2017 23:42:23 GMT
MOC is supposed to have a LOT of water intake resistance, almost as if it had a snorkel like the Half-Track. Water physics in GTA V tend to be completely fine (go grille-deep and you're done for, reduced speed, etc.) So imma guess that the physics tend to "choke" at times and decide to hydrolock your motor as long as you're on water. However it could be that it is easier to hydrolock a vehicle that has already been through a lot. Despite damage in GTA being a "damage model", at the core code of it "hitpoint" system is still being used (thanks to certain trainers and menus I've worked with, I noticed such) for Engine, Body, and Fuel tank respectively and separately. Engine is probably the health/hitpoint value that is being tweaked during water cruises in land vehicles, excluding water puddles formed by rainy weather. Fuel tank health value usually correlates to Engine health value, although it shouldnt matter in Online mode as fuel can only leak from a car in Storymode, and the vehicle is subject to explosion if Fuel tank health value is critical or zero. Body health value cannot be the case as well, as it only gets reduced by gashes or collisions and dents. In short, water resistance in land vehicles is weakened based on prior damage via collision or combat in said vehicle, or is at least safe to assume. In any case, is it better to go through shallow water fast or slowly? P.S. It really is "bigger they are harder they fall" for offroading vehicles in GTA. Cheap ones like the Rebel, Sandking, or any SUV for that matter have relatively cheap insurance when they break, but for Trophy Trucks, Insurgents and Nightsharks, it can get pricey, and for the Pegasus offroaders (June and Marshall/Liberator), the replacement vehicle is miles away from you. Neither vehicle had prior damage. In the first video I believe I was on route to my Pegasus Insurgent Pickup so I could turn it into the PV version, the MOC was perfectly fine but died in that extremely shallow water crossing. The second video me and a friend was just messing around, and that MOC ran the entire length of that deep river, at high speed when we got going, and ran until the river dropped out into the ocean. Do note that in that second video we not reverse, we went forward through the entire length of the water way. So it wasn't prior damage or the speed. Shallow water just seems to be buggy. Another spot is when your following that shallow creek up towards the wall of damn. I've drown vehicles in that to, vehicles that I damn well know via prior off roading adventures can go much deeper. There is definitely something not right with shallow water in this game, in my opinion. Well, if it is indeed a simple bug, that is quite an annoying bug at times. Similar to the bug where if I opened any door on my vehicle via the remote control in the Interaction menu, chances are it would be significantly slower as if my doors have been torn off (and yes if your vehicle doors have been actually torn off, it jeopardizes overall performance). And that is why I use cheap vehicles for offroading (preferrably my Baller LE) as in the event that this bs happens, I only have to spend 2k or less in insurance costs, as opposed to using my Insurgent Custom which is a hefty 20k if it breaks under my control.
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justinlynch3
Member
What do I enter in here? Please god somebody tell me what to enter in here.
Posts: 966
Registered on: January 2016
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Post by justinlynch3 on Oct 12, 2017 1:21:12 GMT
Neither vehicle had prior damage. In the first video I believe I was on route to my Pegasus Insurgent Pickup so I could turn it into the PV version, the MOC was perfectly fine but died in that extremely shallow water crossing. The second video me and a friend was just messing around, and that MOC ran the entire length of that deep river, at high speed when we got going, and ran until the river dropped out into the ocean. Do note that in that second video we not reverse, we went forward through the entire length of the water way. So it wasn't prior damage or the speed. Shallow water just seems to be buggy. Another spot is when your following that shallow creek up towards the wall of damn. I've drown vehicles in that to, vehicles that I damn well know via prior off roading adventures can go much deeper. There is definitely something not right with shallow water in this game, in my opinion. Well, if it is indeed a simple bug, that is quite an annoying bug at times. Similar to the bug where if I opened any door on my vehicle via the remote control in the Interaction menu, chances are it would be significantly slower as if my doors have been torn off (and yes if your vehicle doors have been actually torn off, it jeopardizes overall performance). And that is why I use cheap vehicles for offroading (preferrably my Baller LE) as in the event that this bs happens, I only have to spend 2k or less in insurance costs, as opposed to using my Insurgent Custom which is a hefty 20k if it breaks under my control. I like the Sandking XL. Pro Offroaders will say to use the Sandking SWB due the 2 door having a shorter wheel base, but eh I prefer the XL. I think the Sandking is the only old school GTAV vehicle that can chase things like the Insurgent through the deeper sections of the Zanchodu swamp. It doesn't make the water crossings as fast as the Insurgent, but abit slowly the Sandking will make it. I know this, the 6X6 can't go where the Sandking goes. Pretty sure even the Brawler can't go where the Sandking goes. So you want a cheap vehicle that can climb most things and go most anywhere regarding water, a Sandking isn't a bad option.
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StudentDriver447
Member
Offroader and classic car enthusiast.
Posts: 75
Registered on: September 2017
PSN ID: PrimePilot447
Steam: [MNI] Bismarck
Social Club: PrimePilot447
Discord: Aquaphobic#8109
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Post by StudentDriver447 on Oct 13, 2017 7:12:30 GMT
Well, if it is indeed a simple bug, that is quite an annoying bug at times. Similar to the bug where if I opened any door on my vehicle via the remote control in the Interaction menu, chances are it would be significantly slower as if my doors have been torn off (and yes if your vehicle doors have been actually torn off, it jeopardizes overall performance). And that is why I use cheap vehicles for offroading (preferrably my Baller LE) as in the event that this bs happens, I only have to spend 2k or less in insurance costs, as opposed to using my Insurgent Custom which is a hefty 20k if it breaks under my control. I like the Sandking XL. Pro Offroaders will say to use the Sandking SWB due the 2 door having a shorter wheel base, but eh I prefer the XL. I think the Sandking is the only old school GTAV vehicle that can chase things like the Insurgent through the deeper sections of the Zanchodu swamp. It doesn't make the water crossings as fast as the Insurgent, but abit slowly the Sandking will make it. I know this, the 6X6 can't go where the Sandking goes. Pretty sure even the Brawler can't go where the Sandking goes. So you want a cheap vehicle that can climb most things and go most anywhere regarding water, a Sandking isn't a bad option. Sandking is too common and cliché. Matter of fact I just acquired a Merryweather Mesa for the purpose, a bit cheaper insurance and better ground clearance than the Baller, but it suffers in raw engine power (if only it would stay in first gear 😤). Yes, the sandking goes anywhere, but that kinda takes out the fun of offroading, doesnt it? And also seeing my Mesa's coilover suspension move during rocky trailing is oddly satisfying 😂 and I believe it has larger offroad radials than the King when stock tyres are equipped.
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justinlynch3
Member
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Posts: 966
Registered on: January 2016
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Post by justinlynch3 on Oct 15, 2017 17:35:48 GMT
I like the Sandking XL. Pro Offroaders will say to use the Sandking SWB due the 2 door having a shorter wheel base, but eh I prefer the XL. I think the Sandking is the only old school GTAV vehicle that can chase things like the Insurgent through the deeper sections of the Zanchodu swamp. It doesn't make the water crossings as fast as the Insurgent, but abit slowly the Sandking will make it. I know this, the 6X6 can't go where the Sandking goes. Pretty sure even the Brawler can't go where the Sandking goes. So you want a cheap vehicle that can climb most things and go most anywhere regarding water, a Sandking isn't a bad option. Sandking is too common and cliché. Matter of fact I just acquired a Merryweather Mesa for the purpose, a bit cheaper insurance and better ground clearance than the Baller, but it suffers in raw engine power (if only it would stay in first gear 😤). Yes, the sandking goes anywhere, but that kinda takes out the fun of offroading, doesnt it? And also seeing my Mesa's coilover suspension move during rocky trailing is oddly satisfying 😂 and I believe it has larger offroad radials than the King when stock tyres are equipped. Trying to make your way up the side of Mount Chilliad with the King is usually a enjoyable challenge. But yea I get your point. Biggest downfall of the Mesa is it's so bloody unstable. lol I think the damn Rumple Custom is more stable then that thing. xd. Still, it's fun as hell to use because of it's tipsiness. And I feel you man. Sometimes I really wish we had a manual gear option. I've noticed the same thing with tires as well, my Mesa also has stock off road tires as they are clearly bigger then applying custom tires... for some reason. I believe the Sandking stock tires are a little bigger then custom tires as well. Pretty sure my King is running stocks.
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StudentDriver447
Member
Offroader and classic car enthusiast.
Posts: 75
Registered on: September 2017
PSN ID: PrimePilot447
Steam: [MNI] Bismarck
Social Club: PrimePilot447
Discord: Aquaphobic#8109
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Post by StudentDriver447 on Oct 15, 2017 19:35:11 GMT
Sandking is too common and cliché. Matter of fact I just acquired a Merryweather Mesa for the purpose, a bit cheaper insurance and better ground clearance than the Baller, but it suffers in raw engine power (if only it would stay in first gear 😤). Yes, the sandking goes anywhere, but that kinda takes out the fun of offroading, doesnt it? And also seeing my Mesa's coilover suspension move during rocky trailing is oddly satisfying 😂 and I believe it has larger offroad radials than the King when stock tyres are equipped. Trying to make your way up the side of Mount Chilliad with the King is usually a enjoyable challenge. But yea I get your point. Biggest downfall of the Mesa is it's so bloody unstable. lol I think the damn Rumple Custom is more stable then that thing. xd. Still, it's fun as hell to use because of it's tipsiness. And I feel you man. Sometimes I really wish we had a manual gear option. I've noticed the same thing with tires as well, my Mesa also has stock off road tires as they are clearly bigger then applying custom tires... for some reason. I believe the Sandking stock tires are a little bigger then custom tires as well. Pretty sure my King is running stocks. Yeah, its unstable when going relatively fast, and it is absolute dogshit on asphalt. But its still fine when trailing slowly. Tell you what, how about we do some trailing sometime? I'd like to get my Jeep dirty
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justinlynch3
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What do I enter in here? Please god somebody tell me what to enter in here.
Posts: 966
Registered on: January 2016
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Post by justinlynch3 on Oct 16, 2017 5:47:16 GMT
Trying to make your way up the side of Mount Chilliad with the King is usually a enjoyable challenge. But yea I get your point. Biggest downfall of the Mesa is it's so bloody unstable. lol I think the damn Rumple Custom is more stable then that thing. xd. Still, it's fun as hell to use because of it's tipsiness. And I feel you man. Sometimes I really wish we had a manual gear option. I've noticed the same thing with tires as well, my Mesa also has stock off road tires as they are clearly bigger then applying custom tires... for some reason. I believe the Sandking stock tires are a little bigger then custom tires as well. Pretty sure my King is running stocks. Yeah, its unstable when going relatively fast, and it is absolute dogshit on asphalt. But its still fine when trailing slowly. Tell you what, how about we do some trailing sometime? I'd like to get my Jeep dirty That sounds interesting. Not sure how often I'd join, but I do cruise around free roam occasionally. Just remembered to I need to customize my 6X6. Some time I need to take my Rancher XL for a run, that was my favorite truck by far back in San Andreas, and I always find myself still owning one even in GTA5.
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StudentDriver447
Member
Offroader and classic car enthusiast.
Posts: 75
Registered on: September 2017
PSN ID: PrimePilot447
Steam: [MNI] Bismarck
Social Club: PrimePilot447
Discord: Aquaphobic#8109
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Post by StudentDriver447 on Oct 16, 2017 10:01:40 GMT
Yeah, its unstable when going relatively fast, and it is absolute dogshit on asphalt. But its still fine when trailing slowly. Tell you what, how about we do some trailing sometime? I'd like to get my Jeep dirty That sounds interesting. Not sure how often I'd join, but I do cruise around free roam occasionally. Just remembered to I need to customize my 6X6. Some time I need to take my Rancher XL for a run, that was my favorite truck by far back in San Andreas, and I always find myself still owning one even in GTA5. A friend of mine uses his Rancher quite a lot for offroad use too. Although nowadays he uses a Duneloader after he realized that its snorkel now works in next gen 😂 Im available on GTA5 a lot of the time. Ill send you a friend request on PSN, just hit me up when you got the time.
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