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Post by endersai on Dec 23, 2015 1:23:07 GMT
If they're out of contention based on pace for race one, and we saw from this season that random grids did not slow down the likes of Old Barn, Old Volvo, Old...Stepa, and Old Doompony from surging to the front, I guess I see no risk here, Colonel Obvious. ;(
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Sugar_Free_Nos
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Post by Sugar_Free_Nos on Dec 23, 2015 1:32:47 GMT
I think all of us in this competition have more honor than to deliberately slow down to give ourselves an advantage in the second race.
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st0cking
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Registered on: November 2015
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Post by st0cking on Dec 23, 2015 1:42:49 GMT
so.... if the top 10 get championship points.. and 11th thru 24th place dont.. then as soon as they think theyre out of contention in the first race.. theyre gona go as slow as they can to get pole position for the 2nd race.. are you gona have up to 14 cars parked on the side of the road, or tell them.. hey you have to drive as fast as you can.. how is that enforced.. am i missing something or am i being captain obvious??? Having exactly the same worries. I have a certain degree of trust in other nodo members but to trust 14 people to do the right thing and keep racing as fast as they can is kinda difficult. You'll start questioning every choke if someone did that intentionally and if you choke others will question you. In a sultan i might actually profit from the reversed grids but I'm not a fan of it, i think it'll cause a lot of drama. I've also had cases in playlist where I dnf'd in front of someone but on results he was in front of me. I'd be happy to have qualifyings for the 2nd race too, especially because the 1st track might suit some cars better while others would've been in front on the 2nd track. |
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Post by DrKloden on Dec 23, 2015 1:44:26 GMT
there are alot of semi-fast drivers that are just behind the top drivers in speed, who are fully capable of finishing in the top 5, *IF* and only if they have a clean, solid start.. now imagine one of these semi-pros gets taken out at the beginning of the first race and dont have any chance of making up the 15 sec gap between 13th and 10th, and they believe they can get a top 5 if they start in the front, (because theyve done it before!). this is not hypothetical.. this is 100% likelihood of happening. 100% of seeing several cars stopped or going as slow as possible.. causing traffic and controversy.  |
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bladecruiser
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Post by bladecruiser on Dec 23, 2015 1:48:33 GMT
Well, I would think that just using reverse qualifying for the second race would fix this, while still allowing Ender to hand out grid penalties for whatever.
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st0cking
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Post by st0cking on Dec 23, 2015 1:53:53 GMT
Well, I would think that just using reverse qualifying for the second race would fix this, while still allowing Ender to hand out grid penalties for whatever. In that case it'd prolly be like servii said, people would qualify badly on first race if they profit more from a pole in 2nd race. I don't think any "reversed grid" solutions work really. |
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Post by DrKloden on Dec 23, 2015 2:03:47 GMT
well, there is one way to have reversed grid work... reversed championship standings. the leader of the championship starts last.. that way folks fighting for 6th or whatever in the championship would fight every race and not throw one away. only 2 problems with this method.. 1, 30min is a little short for the whole grid to completely go inside out, and cleanly. and 2: the pts system.. if only the top 10 get pts, then maybe only 14 ppl are in the pts part way thru, and 10 ppl not.. so the grid would still be random for around the top 10 starters. but, reversed championship standings grid is a cool idea i might use for a sedans series.
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Post by Grumples_Plox (grimreaper977) on Dec 23, 2015 2:13:19 GMT
there are alot of semi-fast drivers that are just behind the top drivers in speed, who are fully capable of finishing in the top 5, *IF* and only if they have a clean, solid start.. now imagine one of these semi-pros gets taken out at the beginning of the first race and dont have any chance of making up the 15 sec gap between 13th and 10th, and they believe they can get a top 5 if they start in the front, (because theyve done it before!). this is not hypothetical.. this is 100% likelihood of happening. 100% of seeing several cars stopped or going as slow as possible.. causing traffic and controversy. I feel offended that you think that us guys who are there around 1-2 secs slower than the top guys are such scumbags, i have no respect for your thoughts on this matter. |
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Post by endersai on Dec 23, 2015 2:17:52 GMT
Look, I don't want to sound undemocratic, but I will. You're welcome to run events as you wish. Firstly; let's say like on Spa, where I lost a points finish to a non-points because of rain. Race 2 would have given me a better starting place on the grid by NO guarantees of a result. That's literally all that would happen. Secondly; watch like a single OvivoJR video from SATCC Season 2 guys. I'll wait... Ok, now you've done that, notice how he starts up back and makes his way to the front? Yeah. That. Thirdly; two drivers I know of drove intentionally slowly during races. Myself and cloud. Why? Because we were doing the job of holding the pack up to our team-mates. Which is precisely what we should do and I would do it again. Finally, if you ask the top racers - Oh_Darn, OvivoJR, Superstepa and doompenguin - they want to battle through the pack. And they're faster than the rest of the drivers entered so far. So basically, what happens is... they still get to battle through the field? I mean. If I do a second qualifying for the second race and someone chokes, there will be QQ. If I do a reverse grid, QQ. If I do random grids, QQ. So, it will seem a lot like I have little tolerance for these 'concerns' when, in fact, I have little tolerance.  So, yeah. |
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Sugar_Free_Nos
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Post by Sugar_Free_Nos on Dec 23, 2015 2:26:42 GMT
QQ
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Post by CHill on Dec 23, 2015 2:34:03 GMT
So, do we register our teams here, via PM, or...?
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Argon Byte
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Post by Argon Byte on Dec 23, 2015 2:39:09 GMT
I would like to take part, but seeing how I am new here I don't exactly have a partner. Guess I have some time to work on that yet. |
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st0cking
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Post by st0cking on Dec 23, 2015 2:51:11 GMT
Look, I don't want to sound undemocratic, but I will. You're welcome to run events as you wish. Firstly; let's say like on Spa, where I lost a points finish to a non-points because of rain. Race 2 would have given me a better starting place on the grid by NO guarantees of a result. That's literally all that would happen. Secondly; watch like a single OvivoJR video from SATCC Season 2 guys. I'll wait... Ok, now you've done that, notice how he starts up back and makes his way to the front? Yeah. That. Thirdly; two drivers I know of drove intentionally slowly during races. Myself and cloud. Why? Because we were doing the job of holding the pack up to our team-mates. Which is precisely what we should do and I would do it again. Finally, if you ask the top racers - Oh_Darn, OvivoJR, Superstepa and doompenguin - they want to battle through the pack. And they're faster than the rest of the drivers entered so far. So basically, what happens is... they still get to battle through the field? I mean. If I do a second qualifying for the second race and someone chokes, there will be QQ. If I do a reverse grid, QQ. If I do random grids, QQ. So, it will seem a lot like I have little tolerance for these 'concerns' when, in fact, I have little tolerance. So, yeah. I could say so much against your points but I'll just keep it to myself, doesn't seem like there's a point in discussing.. Anyways, I'd like to register me as 1st driver and Ganjalo as 2nd driver for the "Karin Motorsports" team again. |
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ovivoJR
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World Championship´s: Grotti F1 2015, Formula E , SATCC Season 1, SATCC Season 4
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Post by ovivoJR on Dec 23, 2015 3:03:54 GMT
Alright guys, I really don't get why you would play such stupid games. But if you really take that into consideration than we might need to change the rules. So placed 1-10 go to the back of the grid reverser and 11- 24 stay in finishing order with 11 on pole and 24 on 14th. That way people not in the points have a goal to atleast finish in 11th position
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serviinutiles
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Post by serviinutiles on Dec 23, 2015 3:20:19 GMT
To cite one example, on the Montreal race in season 2, as best i can recall, iceman had a bad starting position, and then had a horrifically unlucky first half of the race that left him near last. He then proceeded, with no help from his car(alpha), to charge through the pack in order to grab i think the final points paying position. Now, if that happened with the season 3 rules on race 1, a smart guy like iceman, who is competing for the championship, is going to see two scenarios while sitting in 20th of 24 at the halfway point:
1) He can charge through the field, maybe take 9th/10th and grab a point. Then he starts race 2 in 14th, with his main competitors very close behind him in superior cars. Likely finish, 5th.
2) He can drive conservatively, not go for passes unless they are blatantly obvious, finish 19th, then start race two in 5th, in 1st by the end of lap 1 while his main competitors are fighting through the field, then utilize his head start and, if necessary, his wide chassis, to hold off his competitors at the end. Likely finish, 1st or 2nd.
Now, obviously scenario two is superior if the goal is to score the most points. And it's not like he's making a mockery of the event, he's just adjusting his driving focus, in the same way that you do if you've got a 5 second lead with 2 laps to go you probably switch to "no mistakes" mode, or if you're down a few seconds with a couple of laps to go you start taking some risks. But it's because the incentive is to finish lower, which is a negative for the event.
Anyway, i think ovivo's idea greatly lessens the possible negative incentives.
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