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Post by Blue Cube on Jun 23, 2015 10:43:28 GMT
Hülkenberg could have won the 2012 Brazilian GP. He was mighty in mixed conditions, the only driver to keep the McLarens of Button and Hamilton honest. He did choke though, taking out Hamilton in the process, but still an indication of his huge talent.
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Post by cameronman1329 on Jun 23, 2015 10:47:52 GMT
Hmm, I'm not sure about that - Hulkenberg has proved again and again, that given the right car, he could really do something special. Take a look at last year, Williams were really on the pace, but found themselves floundering on the victory front - they came close a couple of times and really, should have won Canada, Austria and Abu Dhabi. Now part of this might have been due to either just the raw dominance of Merc, or that both their drivers were particularly lacking in those races. But look back to Korea in 2013 (I think) and just look at how Hulkenberg just held up all those faster drivers time and again - that might have been a one off, but I genuinely believe he could win the WDC given the right car. I honestly believe he is one of the best drivers there, maybe not the best, but I'd put him in the top 3 behind Alonso and Hamilton. He has such talent, and to do as well as he did last race in a Force India that is not on the pace with Williams nor quite with Lotus either, but to finish 6th after holding Bottas behind, shows how good he is. Give him a Mercedes or Ferrari and he'll be right up there challenging for first on the majority of races.
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Mus
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Post by Mus on Jun 23, 2015 13:09:53 GMT
Hmm, I'm not sure about that - Hulkenberg has proved again and again, that given the right car, he could really do something special. Take a look at last year, Williams were really on the pace, but found themselves floundering on the victory front - they came close a couple of times and really, should have won Canada, Austria and Abu Dhabi. Now part of this might have been due to either just the raw dominance of Merc, or that both their drivers were particularly lacking in those races. But look back to Korea in 2013 (I think) and just look at how Hulkenberg just held up all those faster drivers time and again - that might have been a one off, but I genuinely believe he could win the WDC given the right car. I honestly believe he is one of the best drivers there, maybe not the best, but I'd put him in the top 3 behind Alonso and Hamilton. He has such talent, and to do as well as he did last race in a Force India that is not on the pace with Williams nor quite with Lotus either, but to finish 6th after holding Bottas behind, shows how good he is. Give him a Mercedes or Ferrari and he'll be right up there challenging for first on the majority of races. Hmm, I wouldn't say top 3 behind Alonso and Hamilton - that spot is reserved for Mr Ricciardo! But none the less, a massive talent and like Blue Cube said, he was very much en route to winning that 2012 Brazilian GP. Also, this talk of talent has reminded me of a point I wanted to share. Is it just me or is Button massively underrated? People seldom pick up on just how good he is. Obviously at 35, he won't be in F1 for too long - but it something I've noticed over time. His unforgettable Canada 11' win, is possibly my favourite GP of all time.
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Post by endersai on Jun 24, 2015 4:49:01 GMT
Button is massively underrated - go back and watch his considered overtake of Rosberg at Belgium in 2011.
Bottas is in his third year in Formula 1, and is just 25. First year, 2013, he puts a dog of a Williams onto 3rd for Canadian GP and finished 8th at Austin.
Last year he had a number of podiums and finished 4th behind Lewis Hamilton, Spoiled Whiny Shitbag with Silly Ears, and Daniel Ricciardo.
This year he's put in consistently good drives in a field where 1 team is clearly in 1st and another clearly in second.
Hulkenberg is 27, and has been in F1 since 2010 (though 2011 he was a reserve driver when di Resta and Sutil took the Findia seats). He's quick, but he hasn't been as impressive in that time as Bottas has in 2.5 years. Being younger, shorter, and with better results I would comfortably put Bottas in a Ferrari with Vettel after Kimi goes. Hulk would be a solid #2 but Ferrari want long term talent and a title. Bottas is a better bet for that title.
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Post by cameronman1329 on Jun 24, 2015 9:10:52 GMT
Button is massively underrated - go back and watch his considered overtake of Rosberg at Belgium in 2011. Bottas is in his third year in Formula 1, and is just 25. First year, 2013, he puts a dog of a Williams onto 3rd for Canadian GP and finished 8th at Austin. Last year he had a number of podiums and finished 4th behind Lewis Hamilton, Spoiled Whiny Shitbag with Silly Ears, and Daniel Ricciardo. This year he's put in consistently good drives in a field where 1 team is clearly in 1st and another clearly in second. Hulkenberg is 27, and has been in F1 since 2010 (though 2011 he was a reserve driver when di Resta and Sutil took the Findia seats). He's quick, but he hasn't been as impressive in that time as Bottas has in 2.5 years. Being younger, shorter, and with better results I would comfortably put Bottas in a Ferrari with Vettel after Kimi goes. Hulk would be a solid #2 but Ferrari want long term talent and a title. Bottas is a better bet for that title. Hulkenberg is 27, people like Alonso are 33, who's to say he couldn't be at the peak of his game for another 5 or 6 years? Also, Williams have a good car, Hulkenberg is in an awful Force India car and yet managed to hold Bottas behind for a long time, only the sheer pace and power of the Williams allowed Bottas to pass. Hulkenberg is yet to get a run in a good car, Bottas has had his chance in a Williams car that is by far the 3rd best car there, whilst Forca India is right down there the bottom few.
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Post by Blue Cube on Jun 24, 2015 11:17:38 GMT
Everything that needs to be proven about Hülkenbergs innate ability to adapt to any car quickly and extract the maximum out of it has been proven when he won the 24 hours of le mans. It was only his second race in a car that was completely new to him in conditions he's never raced in before. And as Cameron said, it's not a fair comparison between Bottas and Hülkenberg as his Force India is incredibly underdeveloped compared to the Williams of Bottas.
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Mus
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Post by Mus on Jun 24, 2015 11:32:26 GMT
Button is massively underrated - go back and watch his considered overtake of Rosberg at Belgium in 2011. Bottas is in his third year in Formula 1, and is just 25. First year, 2013, he puts a dog of a Williams onto 3rd for Canadian GP and finished 8th at Austin. Last year he had a number of podiums and finished 4th behind Lewis Hamilton, Spoiled Whiny Shitbag with Silly Ears, and Daniel Ricciardo. This year he's put in consistently good drives in a field where 1 team is clearly in 1st and another clearly in second. Hulkenberg is 27, and has been in F1 since 2010 (though 2011 he was a reserve driver when di Resta and Sutil took the Findia seats). He's quick, but he hasn't been as impressive in that time as Bottas has in 2.5 years. Being younger, shorter, and with better results I would comfortably put Bottas in a Ferrari with Vettel after Kimi goes. Hulk would be a solid #2 but Ferrari want long term talent and a title. Bottas is a better bet for that title. Exactly - let's not forget Hulk's pole in 2010 in Brazil. It's not fair in all honesty to consider it that way - like others have said, Bottas has had his run in a Williams that was second best last season (hence all the podiums) and third best now. Whereas Hulk has darted around the mid-table teams - never really getting a solid shot in a fast car. AND YES, SOMEONE AGREES ABOUT BUTTON!
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ChrisDE22
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Post by ChrisDE22 on Jun 28, 2015 15:43:43 GMT
Its very suspicious that Peter Windsor hasnt made a post race analysis video yet, maybe something to do with his beloved Hamilton beeing clearly slower to Rosberg this time. Well usually I wait for his video and then post any thoughts I have here but its gonna have to be different this time....
-Great win by Rosberg, he deserved it, will make championship more interesting -Kimi dissapointing once again, he just doesnt seem motivated to me, a proper Kimi Raikkonen would be up there with Vettel giving Mercs a harder time. Unless he doesnt make a big change in his perfomances soon I think its fair to say we will see Bottas or Hulkenberg replacing him next year. -Great to see williams closer to Ferrari once again, lets hope it stays like this
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jmar17
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Post by jmar17 on Jul 5, 2015 13:57:36 GMT
Some great racing today at Silverstone. It just shows how much of a difference the tyres make and at what time/conditions they are used in. Great decision making from Hamilton and the Mercedes team to switch to the intermediates. Also great driving from the Williams team who had a great start.
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Mus
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Post by Mus on Jul 5, 2015 14:58:41 GMT
That was I must say, a very entertaining race! Both the Williams bolting off at the start, had me on the edge of my seat for a large portion of the race. However though, I really feel Williams made a massive mistake in not allowing Bottas the opportunity to pass Massa and possibly build a lead. They did well in not falling for the Merc dummy in the pits, but they will seriously rue the missed opportunities in this race. They could have gained ground to Ferrari in the constructors - also, I'm not sure how they missed the Merc team coming out for Hamilton's first stop? I would have pitted Bottas then too (unless ofc it was a late call from the Mercs).
The rain provided a lot of entertainment, as Rosberg was the first to really master the conditions - but what a perfect call from both Ham and Seb! All in all, an entertaining race but I am disappointed Williams finished where they did.
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Post by endersai on Jul 6, 2015 0:56:52 GMT
I agree; letting a has-been-and-never-again-will-be older driver's ego reign at Williams cost them a much higher finish which they were probably on track for.
Heartbreaking as a Ricciardo fan as well. I would love to see him in Kimi's seat at Ferrari, spurring the Scuderia on.
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Post by Blue Cube on Jul 7, 2015 10:11:01 GMT
I agree; letting a has-been-and-never-again-will-be older driver's ego reign at Williams cost them a much higher finish which they were probably on track for. Heartbreaking as a Ricciardo fan as well. I would love to see him in Kimi's seat at Ferrari, spurring the Scuderia on. Calling Massa a has been when he has been out qualifying and performing Bottas at most events this season is a bit comical to me. When they switched to the harder compound tires Massa pulled away from Bottas who had no answer to his pace particularly when it started raining. I agree that williams threw away a possible win but that was more a tactical error. Had they pitted either Massa or Bottas the same time Hamilton went into the pits they would have kept track position.Though the pace of the mercs in the wet was way too quick anyway for Williams to even have a chance of winning.
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Mus
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Post by Mus on Jul 7, 2015 11:41:44 GMT
I agree; letting a has-been-and-never-again-will-be older driver's ego reign at Williams cost them a much higher finish which they were probably on track for. Heartbreaking as a Ricciardo fan as well. I would love to see him in Kimi's seat at Ferrari, spurring the Scuderia on. Calling Massa a has been when he has been out qualifying and performing Bottas at most events this season is a bit comical to me. When they switched to the harder compound tires Massa pulled away from Bottas who had no answer to his pace particularly when it started raining. I agree that williams threw away a possible win but that was more a tactical error. Had they pitted either Massa or Bottas the same time Hamilton went into the pits they would have kept track position.Though the pace of the mercs in the wet was way too quick anyway for Williams to even have a chance of winning. Yeah I don't agree with the has been part but when it mattered, they failed in letting Bottas build a lead - Toto Wolff reckoned Bottas would have been able to build a lead. But as you rightly point out, the Williams car is poor in the rain, and as such they would have just been reigned in by the Mercs when it got wet. Alas, we got a very entertaining GP - easily the best this season.
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Post by endersai on Jul 7, 2015 22:42:14 GMT
Massa's chance has been and gone and he will never be a serious contender for the future. His career has peaked and whilst he can still have fun and race at Williams - and whilst his motivation still exists - this is not a guy who will be a champion ever. Vettel (again), Bottas, Ricciardo, Verstappen - these are names of future world champions after Lewis Hamilton. Massa's name is only on that list if every other driver is replaced by newborn puppies.
Note I didn't say Williams would have won; but had Bottas forged a lead their placement after the pits would have put them ahead of Seb in the Ferrari. Williams had the chance of 3rd/4th or 3rd/5th and squandered it.
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Mus
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Post by Mus on Jul 9, 2015 14:05:09 GMT
Massa's chance has been and gone and he will never be a serious contender for the future. His career has peaked and whilst he can still have fun and race at Williams - and whilst his motivation still exists - this is not a guy who will be a champion ever. Vettel (again), Bottas, Ricciardo, Verstappen - these are names of future world champions after Lewis Hamilton. Massa's name is only on that list if every other driver is replaced by newborn puppies. Note I didn't say Williams would have won; but had Bottas forged a lead their placement after the pits would have put them ahead of Seb in the Ferrari. Williams had the chance of 3rd/4th or 3rd/5th and squandered it. Fair enough I see your point - but couldn't the same be said for Vettel? As in, you mention him as a champion of the future, but as seen with Alonso, I really don't see how he can be WDC again with Ferrari, especially given how dominant Mercedes are at the moment. Ricciardo, Bottas, Verstappen and Hulkenberg, all fair points but I would be cautious in throwing Vettel in there; seeing as you fail to mention Alonso. Yeah, they really did squander a third consecutive podium.
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