parksguard
Member
You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?
Posts: 1,227
Registered on: June 2014
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Post by parksguard on Jun 30, 2014 5:04:44 GMT
Sometimes racing is not that simple. Look at Senna v Prost in the 1990 Japanese GP. In the first corner they collide as Senna tries to take Prost on the inside. Senna does not brake during this maneuver. Sometimes racing means putting the other car in the position that they have to decide to collide or not. Personally car B has the racing line. He should keep it. If car A wants to try to overtake on the inside he will crash the two. It is a mind game If either car gives way to the other then the car that concedes will be in the one down position the entire time because the car who took the risk and won will be able to do the same thing for the rest of the race. That other car will likely always back down after an incident like that. The crash youtu.be/SvSgJDIsRncSenna's interview youtu.be/CgSe1CUa3SAHaven't scrolled past this but this is not a great example to use. Senna got pole the year before on this track, they put him off the line with good traction and he lost the lead before the first corner. He complained to the FIA before and after the race. He earned pole again in 1990. They did the exact same thing, putting Prost on the good line and boning Senna even though he qualified first. If Senna and Prost both DNFed this race Senna would win the championship. So Senna made the previous two years right by taking Prost out. It becomes a lot more obvious what happened with some background info. This is a good example of the situation in real life. It is uncommon two racers enter the corner side by side. If one ignores the situational evidence, ie Prost needs to DNF to lose the championship, Prost has the racing line even if he does create a gap. He probably saw Senna trying to take the inside, but neither one of them braked which resulted in the crash. Senna may have wanted to wreck Prost, but Prost could haves braked and avoided it at least in this corner.
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haydugjr
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Posts: 359
Registered on: March 2014
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Post by haydugjr on Jun 30, 2014 5:26:30 GMT
Haven't scrolled past this but this is not a great example to use. Senna got pole the year before on this track, they put him off the line with good traction and he lost the lead before the first corner. He complained to the FIA before and after the race. He earned pole again in 1990. They did the exact same thing, putting Prost on the good line and boning Senna even though he qualified first. If Senna and Prost both DNFed this race Senna would win the championship. So Senna made the previous two years right by taking Prost out. It becomes a lot more obvious what happened with some background info. This is a good example of the situation in real life. It is uncommon two racers enter the corner side by side. If one ignores the situational evidence, ie Prost needs to DNF to lose the championship, Prost has the racing line even if he does create a gap. He probably saw Senna trying to take the inside, but neither one of them braked which resulted in the crash. Senna may have wanted to wreck Prost, but Prost could haves braked and avoided it at least in this corner. Braking in that corner was not a good idea for Prost. Senna would have rear-ended him like a texting soccer mom, even if he wasn't already trying to take him out. He could have ran a little wide, and no doubt he would have if he knew Senna dove in after Prost turned in. If Prost had done anything to accomodate Senna in that corner he would have never made it to Formula 1 in the first place. You don't win races by letting anyone within a few feet of your rear bumper take the inside.
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parksguard
Member
You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?
Posts: 1,227
Registered on: June 2014
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Post by parksguard on Jun 30, 2014 5:44:56 GMT
This is a good example of the situation in real life. It is uncommon two racers enter the corner side by side. If one ignores the situational evidence, ie Prost needs to DNF to lose the championship, Prost has the racing line even if he does create a gap. He probably saw Senna trying to take the inside, but neither one of them braked which resulted in the crash. Senna may have wanted to wreck Prost, but Prost could haves braked and avoided it at least in this corner. Braking in that corner was not a good idea for Prost. Senna would have rear-ended him like a texting soccer mom, even if he wasn't already trying to take him out. He could have ran a little wide, and no doubt he would have if he knew Senna dove in after Prost turned in. If Prost had done anything to accomodate Senna in that corner he would have never made it to Formula 1 in the first place. You don't win races by letting anyone within a few feet of your rear bumper take the inside. Agreed, and I also agree with Senna in his interview. "If you no longer shoot a gap that exists you are no longer a racing driver." Prost made a slight error and made a gap. Knowing Senna's tendencies, they're rough history, the pole position shenanigans, and what was on the line for that race the defensive thing to do would have been to go wide and try to take Senna at another point in the race. Do I think Senna took that line to put Prost in a position to crash if he did not react? Yes, but it was not an intentional PIT and if Prost had defensively reacted he would not have lost the championship that year at least not in the first lap. I suppose the overall point I am trying to make is either you are a safe and defensive driver who can win a race nice and clean even if you get pressured. However, you can be an aggressive driver and leave it to the other racer to make the choice of whether or not to make contact thereby earning yourself a position. Racing would be boring if everyone was defensive. "Who dares, wins."
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haydugjr
Member
Posts: 359
Registered on: March 2014
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Post by haydugjr on Jun 30, 2014 5:52:50 GMT
Racing would be boring if everyone was defensive. "Who dares, wins." Pack it up guys this thread is over
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Post by Trowa on Jun 30, 2014 7:04:54 GMT
Racing would be boring if everyone was defensive. "Who dares, wins." Pack it up guys this thread is over Umm no.
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Post by ch3rryboyhunter on Jun 30, 2014 15:19:58 GMT
Its still a great discussion. Although I don't think the senna/prost example is going so good. There have been some great points made, but talk of off track rivalries and intentional point grieving doesn't really translate well to GTA racing. Don't worry. I will be adding another subject for discussion soon.
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Post by ch3rryboyhunter on Jun 30, 2014 15:25:01 GMT
Here is a great pass made in 2005. Just want to say I am not a huge follower of irl racing, but I do pay attention to it sometimes.
It is a great example of making that outside pass possible by baiting your opponent further inside then they would probably like to be.
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haydugjr
Member
Posts: 359
Registered on: March 2014
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Post by haydugjr on Jun 30, 2014 15:37:02 GMT
That's not racing, that's Formula 1!
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Post by ch3rryboyhunter on Jun 30, 2014 15:47:21 GMT
That's not racing, that's Formula 1! Sure DRS and other differences cant be applied, but its not like there is nothing you can learn from f1.
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Post by Hale on Jun 30, 2014 16:06:39 GMT
No drs in 2005..... Just Raikkonen being a badass
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Post by ch3rryboyhunter on Jun 30, 2014 16:07:47 GMT
Oh I didnt know. Well that makes that clip even better then.
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Post by Hale on Jun 30, 2014 16:09:59 GMT
Just proves what taking.one defensive can cost you. he defended into the last chicane. kimi.got a run down the straight , grew steel testicles. straightened his bowtie and owned it
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Post by ch3rryboyhunter on Jun 30, 2014 16:14:36 GMT
Just proves what taking.one defensive can cost you. he defended into the last chicane. kimi.got a run down the straight , grew steel testicles. straightened his bowtie and owned it I was hoping somebody would say that. Ive been waiting for it. There will always be an opening nomatter what. Unless obviously there is physically no room like a tight chicane ect. You have to see it. Predict and provoke your opponent, and put your big girl pants on
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Post by Trowa on Jun 30, 2014 16:14:49 GMT
Also proves you can pass on the outside without destroying your opponents car. Take notes people. Take notes.
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Post by Hale on Jun 30, 2014 16:23:37 GMT
My big girl pants are size 58. brolic
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