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Post by CHILLI on Jan 9, 2016 1:34:33 GMT
Yes I understand it isn't relevant to a lot of cars, but I just thought it was interesting, and maybe you found something more about this! (And I felt free to correct your quotation ) Nah I havent thought about Benny's wheels all that much because I dont own a lowrider and very few, from what I've seen, use them in races in the first place (on PC). It sucks that we cant use them on all other cars because there are a few that actually look quite cool.
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Nismo.
Member
Almost fully cross-platform scumbaggery
Posts: 52
Registered on: October 2015
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Post by Nismo. on Jan 22, 2016 18:54:46 GMT
I still don't understand the stress over the wheel types as it's only a matter of the tyrewall amount, and that itself is pretty linear. As far as I could test, there's nothing here to have a doubt on about. I'm writing this because people keep on saying they feel differences, but the most trustworthy fact here is game code, actual numbers that make sense, and as stated by CHILLI, mass doesn't affect performance. I could test this and find ways to give a visual proof to clarify this topic. I do support that people should have knowledge about this, as it's pretty easy to explain.
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Post by JettaArts on Jan 23, 2016 1:12:13 GMT
Ponies. Suck.
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Post by CHILLI on Jan 23, 2016 22:11:56 GMT
I still don't understand the stress over the wheel types as it's only a matter of the tyrewall amount, and that itself is pretty linear. I'm writing this because people keep on saying they feel differences, but the most trustworthy fact here is game code, actual numbers If we have to resort to searching for game code every time we come across something that's subtle to notice, it's going to drive all of us crazy if we cant find any code to support our findings. At the end of the day we play games to have a bit of fun, not to sit around all day dissecting configuration data and, if lucky, manage to dissect the executable code... but at that point we're also deep into illegal territory (reverse-engineering games, we're not just looking at a few config numbers anymore) which means that we got it all wrong from the start. When someone first told me offroads are the best over bumps I was doubting it for a long time because it never made a significant difference for the cars I drove at the time. I was more annoyed at the fact they caused horrendous understeer on most of my cars and made it harder to point them across a few bumps, causing me more problems than they solved. But ever since I noticed offroads caused me so many issues related to understeer I set out to figure out what traits the other types have. I didnt get this idea "because it must be". I got the idea because it caused me real issues in races and I needed a different solution to my problems. And lastly I want to note that I know a lot of you (racing community members) started getting into racing through GTA. Some of you might have played racing games before but not taken it to this level, so I cant expect all of you to know what to look for in a car's handling and behaviour. But please, keep your mind open to new ideas and truly test what's being suggested before you shun what's being said and claim it's wrong. For example Hertz tested the "weight" value for parts to see if stuff like skirts actually change anything. But after having cranked the values up a thousand times beyond the known maximum and still found nothing, it's at that point it's safe to assume it's placebo or not related to the driving itself. Unfortunately we cant do this with wheel types because their values are hardcoded, which is why I've tested it over such an incredible long time before updating my posts. I'm doing it that way so that so I can be extra sure their effects are a real thing and not a bunch of happy accidents. It took me a little under 1 year of time to nail down SUVs because they share so many similarities with High-ends and Sports wheels, just as an example of how hard it can be to nail down some of the types. But this is what happens when you start looking for ways to tune the cars to your preference so that you can be, if not faster, more consistent.
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Nismo.
Member
Almost fully cross-platform scumbaggery
Posts: 52
Registered on: October 2015
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Post by Nismo. on Jan 24, 2016 15:32:11 GMT
I totally agree that a game is played to have a bit of fun, but, unfortunately, most of the people are here just to win, and for that, they just slap offroads (or the latest trend, tuners) on all their cars, most of the times just because it's "better", not because they like the look of the wheels. It might sound a bit dumb, but, when I see someone using, let's say, offroads in a Zion they think something is happening, but it isn't. We could have three factors that could become a bit of a doubt to the normal racer: 1 - Bump soaking 2 - Traction change 3 - Tyre width (which we believe has an effect, not proven by code, but it's the "most trustworthy" information we have) 1.Bump soaking can be explained by the handling flag, I think no doubt should be had on this point, it just all makes sense, I have used R* editor to see this working, and it's pretty straight forward, it's like in real life, those huge raid trucks have less pressure in their tyres so they can just soak bumps much better without losing traction. 2.I think Broughy has made a pretty decent video on this, and there are no traction changes. 3. Tyre width stays the same, same as the wheel size. when you apply different rims to a car, the same simply changes the model of the wheel your car has, resizing it to the exact same size as the stock one. BUT, I've seen cars like the Surano, the stock wheels are a bit larger, but if you look closely, they already clip a bit through the ground, that means the wheel model is bigger than the collision model, but for the physics, the wheel is always the same size. I have tested the Elegy with different tyres and spoilers, as I said previously, and I never experienced any sort of understeer, but we are testing this in different platforms, and I heard on PC cars tend to understeer a bit more because the physics are smoother due to higher frame rate, as you also said before. Going a bit back on this thread, arsenalgunner20 said he was able to achieve a faster lap with Benny's wheels, I'd call that a placebo, when you switched to other wheels different to Benny's you expected a difference and started driving erratically (most likely), and time differences up to .5 are extremely tiny and a slight-slight mistake might have done that. But I'll be open for more information about this topic and eventually even try it myself, but lowriders are something hard to test, I believe hydraulics are a bit buggy at the moment.
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Post by arsenalgunner20 on Jan 24, 2016 15:37:31 GMT
Nismo.It could've been placebo, but I thought I'll mention the fact that both Maci7772 and I got a faster lap time with those wheels! I'm to inconsistent to be able to test it fully probably, and yes the hydraulics still act weird from time to time.
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SalveKroon
Member
...races to win cash to buy cars to win races to win cash to buy cars to win...
Posts: 16
Registered on: March 2017
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Post by SalveKroon on Mar 14, 2017 9:11:04 GMT
Very new to this and find it amazingly interesting that you can race and be a nerd at the same time, fascinating! However, since Broughy's YT-vid about which vehicle benefit from offroad (eg large tire walls) tires there has been alot of new cars. So what I can figure out the full, updated list of cars that benefit from offroad tires are the following: Class | Vehicle | strHandlingFlags |
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Emergency
| Police Cruiser (Interceptor)
| 20000
| Industrial
| Dump
| 20001
| Industrial
| Guardian
| 420000
| Motorcycles
| BF400
| 20001
| Motorcycles
| Chimera
| 1020001
| Motorcycles
| Cliffhanger
| 20001
| Motorcycles
| Enduro
| 20001
| Motorcycles
| Esskey
| 20001
| Motorcycles
| Gargoyle
| 20001
| Motorcycles
| Manchez
| 40020001
| Motorcycles
| Sanchez
| 20001
| Muscle
| Nightshade
| 20000
| Off-Road
| Dubsta 6x6
| 420000
| Off-Road
| Insurgent
| 4220000
| Off-Road
| Insurgent Pick-Up
| 4220000
| Off-Road
| Ramp Buggy
| 20002
| Off-Road
| Ramp Buggy (Spoiler)
| 20002
| Off-Road
| Sandking SWB
| 420000
| Off-Road
| Sandking XL
| 420000
| Off-Road
| Street Blazer
| 41020000
| Sports
| Feltzer
| 20000
| Sports
| Jester
| 20002
| Sports
| Jester (Racecar)
| 20002
| Sports
| Massacro
| 20002
| Sports
| Massacro (Racecar)
| 20002
| Sports Classics
| Stinger GT
| 20000
| Sports Classics
| Stirling GT
| 20000
| Supers
| ETR1
| 20002
| Supers
| FMJ
| 20002
| Supers
| Itali GTB
| 20002
| Supers
| Itali GTB Custom
| 20002
| Supers
| Osiris
| 20002
| Supers
| Penetrator
| 20002
| Supers
| RE-7B
| 20002
| Supers
| Reaper
| 20002
| Supers
| T20
| 20002
| Supers
| Tempesta
| 20002
| Supers
| Turismo R
| 20002
| Supers
| Tyrus
| 20002
| Supers
| X80 Proto
| 20002
| Supers
| Zentorno
| 20002
| Utility
| Fieldmaster
| 22000
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Don't know if this deserve an own thread but here it is
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Post by RJSlow on Mar 15, 2017 4:16:43 GMT
Very new to this and find it amazingly interesting that you can race and be a nerd at the same time, fascinating! However, since Broughy's YT-vid about which vehicle benefit from offroad (eg large tire walls) tires there has been alot of new cars. So what I can figure out the full, updated list of cars that benefit from offroad tires are the following: Class | Vehicle | strHandlingFlags |
---|
Emergency
| Police Cruiser (Interceptor)
| 20000
| Industrial
| Dump
| 20001
| Industrial
| Guardian
| 420000
| Motorcycles
| BF400
| 20001
| Motorcycles
| Chimera
| 1020001
| Motorcycles
| Cliffhanger
| 20001
| Motorcycles
| Enduro
| 20001
| Motorcycles
| Esskey
| 20001
| Motorcycles
| Gargoyle
| 20001
| Motorcycles
| Manchez
| 40020001
| Motorcycles
| Sanchez
| 20001
| Muscle
| Nightshade
| 20000
| Off-Road
| Dubsta 6x6
| 420000
| Off-Road
| Insurgent
| 4220000
| Off-Road
| Insurgent Pick-Up
| 4220000
| Off-Road
| Ramp Buggy
| 20002
| Off-Road
| Ramp Buggy (Spoiler)
| 20002
| Off-Road
| Sandking SWB
| 420000
| Off-Road
| Sandking XL
| 420000
| Off-Road
| Street Blazer
| 41020000
| Sports
| Feltzer
| 20000
| Sports
| Jester
| 20002
| Sports
| Jester (Racecar)
| 20002
| Sports
| Massacro
| 20002
| Sports
| Massacro (Racecar)
| 20002
| Sports Classics
| Stinger GT
| 20000
| Sports Classics
| Stirling GT
| 20000
| Supers
| ETR1
| 20002
| Supers
| FMJ
| 20002
| Supers
| Itali GTB
| 20002
| Supers
| Itali GTB Custom
| 20002
| Supers
| Osiris
| 20002
| Supers
| Penetrator
| 20002
| Supers
| RE-7B
| 20002
| Supers
| Reaper
| 20002
| Supers
| T20
| 20002
| Supers
| Tempesta
| 20002
| Supers
| Turismo R
| 20002
| Supers
| Tyrus
| 20002
| Supers
| X80 Proto
| 20002
| Supers
| Zentorno
| 20002
| Utility
| Fieldmaster
| 22000
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Don't know if this deserve an own thread but here it is The spreadsheet linked in the OP has all this data already in it. Its in the Handling Data (Basic) tab. A little more confusing than a direct list but its in there none the less
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Deleted
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Registered on: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 9:21:49 GMT
I don't understand the numbers, can someone explain what I'm looking at/for?
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Post by CHILLI on Mar 15, 2017 10:48:49 GMT
I don't understand the numbers, can someone explain what I'm looking at/for? The handling/model flags are values in HEX, same system as what's commonly used to encode colors. To compare with colors for the sake of example they're usually encoded as RRGGBB (red, red, green, green, blue, blue) so full red would be written as FF0000 or medium grey as 080808. But in this case these values correspond to a handling/model modifier or "flag" where 20000 in the "handling flags" gives you a car with TYRES_CAN_CLIP only. The values are read right-to-left, so the order is reversed. And here's an example of a common set of "model flags" 440010, used by the vast majority of cars in some way.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Registered on: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 11:11:17 GMT
I don't understand the numbers, can someone explain what I'm looking at/for? The handling/model flags are values in HEX, same system as what's commonly used to encode colors. To compare with colors for the sake of example they're usually encoded as RRGGBB (red, red, green, green, blue, blue) so full red would be written as FF0000 or medium grey as 080808. But in this case these values correspond to a handling/model modifier or "flag" where 20000 in the "handling flags" gives you a car with TYRES_CAN_CLIP only. The values are read right-to-left, so the order is reversed. And here's an example of a common set of "model flags" 440010, used by the vast majority of cars in some way. Intriguing, not seen the code in it's raw format before so thanks for clarifying. Does the difference between the numbers of say the Chimera (1020001) and the Jester (20002) actually mean anything other than it's just a numerical equivalent of a tick in the box?
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Post by CHILLI on Mar 15, 2017 11:21:15 GMT
Intriguing, not seen the code in it's raw format before so thanks for clarifying. Does the difference between the numbers of say the Chimera (1020001) and the Jester (20002) actually mean anything other than it's just a numerical equivalent of a tick in the box? The difference there just means the Jester has a few more modifiers activated. What you said is a good way to put it, they are checkboxes in number form.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Registered on: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 11:49:08 GMT
Thanks for clarifying sir
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jstilin
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Post by jstilin on Apr 21, 2018 0:11:07 GMT
this is great
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crispybaconftw
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Post by crispybaconftw on Apr 25, 2018 23:40:20 GMT
I need to read this at some point... Interesting stuff!
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