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Post by Dnl_Jackson on Dec 10, 2015 12:49:51 GMT
I will also run some tests without vsync and all settings set to the lowest and see what fps I can get doing so. Have fun playing with tetris look alike graphics
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joealker
Member
what is life
Posts: 51
Registered on: November 2015
Steam: josephalker
Social Club: joe_alker
Discord: The Purple Wind#1395
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Post by joealker on Dec 10, 2015 14:08:48 GMT
Going to put some input here: I play on PC at a locked 30fps. Never have I had issues with understeer except where it would normally happen. My rig is capable of 60fps on low settings, but I didn't notice understeer then either... For reference I play using an XBox 360 controller. Also one last thing: "Turn you b*tch!"
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Post by CHILLI on Dec 10, 2015 21:14:21 GMT
I've found that for 60Hz screens letting the framerate reach up to about 90fps is still leaving a pretty complete image with the bonus of better reponse times from games. Above ~100fps screen tearing will become more and more noticable and can become distracting or make it hard to see what's actually going on. For example the airport in GTA IV usually allows the framerate to skyrocket, causing the rotor blades of helicopters to look more like giant scanlines that flicker on and off. The pros and cons of a unlocked framerate are: Pros: - Better response - It will look better up to a certain point Cons: - In the case of a physics/framerate relation, precision will increase but it will dampen rapid movements - Will look choppy if it's too far above the refresh rate because of screen tearing. Also depends on the game. - Relating to the first Con it may cause oddities to appear, like uber slow swimming in GTA SA or mad rolling friction in GTA 3/VC when not giving input.
And when locking the framerate the opposite of the points above may or may not apply. Going back to the question about understeer/oversteer. A locked framerate will mean the car gets to move and rotate further before the next update, so if the car turns fast enough it will go from having traction one frame and being on the edge or breaking traction the next frame. If the framerate/updates were more frequent it would get to catch the car before breaking traction and redirect it around the turn instead, a natural bi-effect can be understeer. This doesnt only apply to GTA, I've noticed similiar-ish effects in other games too. For reference I ended up playing GTA SA with the framerate unlocked so that the driving felt smoother. And to counter-act some of the oddities mods like MTA (multi theft auto, multiplayer mod) capped the framerate below 60 but above 30 to get a bit of both worlds. Dang I ramble on way too much xD Anyway, I think I've covered most things regarding physics and framerate dependencies by now. If anyone wants to dig even deeper I think it will be better to open a new thread
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Post by endersai on Dec 10, 2015 23:06:04 GMT
Chilli, I speak for everyone except Sugar_Free_Nos (who would agree but add "scrubs" to it) when I say you don't ramble and people are literally geeking out on your insights.
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Post by Broughy1322 on Dec 10, 2015 23:30:18 GMT
Chilli, I speak for everyone except Sugar_Free_Nos (who would agree but add "scrubs" to it) when I say you don't ramble and people are literally geeking out on your insights. I geeked out all over the floor. It was messy.
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Post by endersai on Dec 10, 2015 23:40:44 GMT
Was probably sugar free, too. Oh and CHILLI, since you're reading this - the touring cars event is on tomorrow. Just because I know 30mins beforehand I'll tell you on steam and you'll say "shit" and log on. B-Man, you are welcome to participate/spectate - either in the race or in the fact that despite having just reminded him here Chilli will act like it's the first time he's heard the news. <3 Chilli.
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Sugar_Free_Nos
Member
Host and Disk Jockey of 103.2 The Scum
Posts: 1,663
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PSN ID: Sugar_Free_Nos
Xbox GT: Sugar Free Nos
Steam: Sugar Free Nos
Social Club: Sugar_Free_Nos
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Post by Sugar_Free_Nos on Dec 10, 2015 23:57:05 GMT
Chilli, I speak for everyone except Sugar_Free_Nos (who would agree but add "scrubs" to it) when I say you don't ramble and people are literally geeking out on your insights. I geeked out all over the floor. It was messy. Will it be uploaded to Random Bits?
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Post by Oh_Darn on Dec 11, 2015 0:00:43 GMT
So like I said, I ran some tests. I picked a track i'm comfortable with and that I could drive consistently fast on. Testing environment: DrKloden's Bahrain International 10 laps GTA mode Comet (GT wing, sports tires) Every ingame setting turned down to off/normal So I did 10 laps each test. One test on 30fps, one on 60fps and one on +-110 (average fps, couldn't get stable 120) The outcome was surprising. The laptimes were pretty far apart from each other, but also the handling felt different. I did the 60 fps first, because thats the setting im used to. I got a laptime of 1:06.264. I then switched to 120 fps, my laptimes were on average half a second faster. Where it felt impossible to break the 1:06 barrier, I got a 1:05.642 within 5 laps and did a few more 1:05's after that. When I switched to 30 fps, I couldnt get below 1:08. My fastest lap after 10 laps was 1:08.098. I felt a lot of difference in the handling as well. For example, when I switched from 60 to 120 fps, I suffered understeer I didnt expect, so I took a corner the same way, but it felt like I had more speed, so I obviously couldnt make the turn. When going from 120 to 30 fps, the first thing I did, was hitting an inside barrier because the car turned in much more than I expected. I now know exactly what you mean with the PC understeer, Broughy1322 . After the 30 fps I switched back to 60 fps and noticed much more understeer. I dont think I can exactly explain why, but I will write it down as much as I can and as understandable as possible. So I discussed this with CHILLI, and came to the following explanation for the differences: Lets say youre moving 30 units per second. At 30 fps, you will move 1 unit per frame, at 60 fps that will be .5 of a unit and at 120 that would obviously be .25 of a unit. If theres a pothole, which can give a speedboost, smaller than a unit, at 30 fps you can be in front of the pothole in say frame 1, and behind the pothole in frame 2. While running at 60 fps, frame 1 will be in front of the pothole, frame 2 will be on the pothole, thus giving a boost effect and frame 3 will be behind the pothole. At 120 fps frame 1 will be in front again, frame 2 will touch the beginning of the pothole, frame 3 will be on, frame 4 will be at the end of the pothole and frame 5 will be behind it. So theoretically you can miss the boost at 30 fps, apply the boost once at 60 fps, and potentially hit the boost three times on 120 fps. For the handling I will use a similar example. Lets say you turn the car in 1 second to 30 degrees. The game will do its calculations. At 30 fps you will turn 1 degree per frame, at 60 fps it would be .5 degree per frame and at 120 fps that would be .25 degree per frame. Imagine the pothole example, but for bumps in a corner. So at 30 fps a small bump would feel very sudden, at 60 fps the bump feels a lot smoother and at 120 fps it could be very smooth. That leads to more accurate cornering because you will get less assumptions by the surface. Im writing this while talking and discussing the subject with Chilli, so I think he can give a more in depth explanation about the turning and why there is more understeer at higher fps. I dont do TL;DR's, read it you lazy fool
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Post by endersai on Dec 11, 2015 0:05:41 GMT
This might explain why I can compete more effectively in pCARS than in GTA, Darn...?
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bladecruiser
Member
Posts: 1,287
Registered on: June 2015
Social Club: BladeCruiser
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Post by bladecruiser on Dec 11, 2015 0:10:49 GMT
So like I said, I ran some tests. I picked a track i'm comfortable with and that I could drive consistently fast on. Testing environment: DrKloden's Bahrain International 10 laps GTA mode Comet (GT wing, sports tires) Every ingame setting turned down to off/normal So I did 10 laps each test. One test on 30fps, one on 60fps and one on +-110 (average fps, couldn't get stable 120) The outcome was surprising. The laptimes were pretty far apart from each other, but also the handling felt different. I did the 60 fps first, because thats the setting im used to. I got a laptime of 1:06.264. I then switched to 120 fps, my laptimes were on average half a second faster. Where it felt impossible to break the 1:06 barrier, I got a 1:05.642 within 5 laps and did a few more 1:05's after that. When I switched to 30 fps, I couldnt get below 1:08. My fastest lap after 10 laps was 1:08.098. I felt a lot of difference in the handling as well. For example, when I switched from 60 to 120 fps, I suffered understeer I didnt expect, so I took a corner the same way, but it felt like I had more speed, so I obviously couldnt make the turn. When going from 120 to 30 fps, the first thing I did, was hitting an inside barrier because the car turned in much more than I expected. I now know exactly what you mean with the PC understeer, Broughy1322 . After the 30 fps I switched back to 60 fps and noticed much more understeer. I dont think I can exactly explain why, but I will write it down as much as I can and as understandable as possible. So I discussed this with CHILLI , and came to the following explanation for the differences: Lets say youre moving 30 units per second. At 30 fps, you will move 1 unit per frame, at 60 fps that will be .5 of a unit and at 120 that would obviously be .25 of a unit. If theres a pothole, which can give a speedboost, smaller than a unit, at 30 fps you can be in front of the pothole in say frame 1, and behind the pothole in frame 2. While running at 60 fps, frame 1 will be in front of the pothole, frame 2 will be on the pothole, thus giving a boost effect and frame 3 will be behind the pothole. At 120 fps frame 1 will be in front again, frame 2 will touch the beginning of the pothole, frame 3 will be on, frame 4 will be at the end of the pothole and frame 5 will be behind it. So theoretically you can miss the boost at 30 fps, apply the boost once at 60 fps, and potentially hit the boost three times on 120 fps. For the handling I will use a similar example. Lets say you turn the car in 1 second to 30 degrees. The game will do its calculations. At 30 fps you will turn 1 degree per frame, at 60 fps it would be .5 degree per frame and at 120 fps that would be .25 degree per frame. Imagine the pothole example, but for bumps in a corner. So at 30 fps a small bump would feel very sudden, at 60 fps the bump feels a lot smoother and at 120 fps it could be very smooth. That leads to more accurate cornering because you will get less assumptions by the surface. Im writing this while talking and discussing the subject with Chilli, so I think he can give a more in depth explanation about the turning and why there is more understeer at higher fps. I dont do TL;DR's, read it you lazy fool Now we know where your insane speed comes from - too much fps being boosted! On a serious note, it's nice to have some testing done in regards to this, and now I've got a reason to start using my old "racing" config file again since it seems it can make a significant difference with turning ability and speed around corners.
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Post by Broughy1322 on Dec 11, 2015 0:26:54 GMT
Vsync getting turned off and all graphics settings getting put down to minimum for MCEC.
#PCsucks
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Post by Oh_Darn on Dec 11, 2015 0:31:34 GMT
Vsync getting turned off and all graphics settings getting put down to minimum for MCEC. #PCsucks Interesting info for a fact finding video though? You said you smelled one already
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Post by endersai on Dec 11, 2015 0:41:04 GMT
Broughy. Sir, you know I respect you*, but you're totally wrong. Consoles are Dennis. PCs are King Arthur. (* You don't, but it's a safe assumption for you to make)
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Post by cameronman1329 on Dec 11, 2015 0:44:28 GMT
Broughy. Sir, you know I respect you*, but you're totally wrong. Consoles are Dennis. PCs are King Arthur. (* You don't, but it's a safe assumption for you to make) Wii U Master Rice PC Peasant Race
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Post by endersai on Dec 11, 2015 0:58:15 GMT
Ha, the Wii is, if anyone, Sir Bedevere. Or Sir Robin.
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