Eva
Member
UTC -8:00
Posts: 114 
Registered on: November 2015
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Post by Eva on Apr 10, 2016 19:44:23 GMT
I thought I'd showcase this video in light of thekillswitchhh getting a ridiculous lap time in the Penumbra, a whole 3 seconds faster than my own and faster than my lap time with 130+ fps I wonder if I was doing that without knowing that it was a thing. The track was just so bumpy that I was letting off quite often. I wonder... -Eva |
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Post by thekillswitchhh on Apr 10, 2016 19:49:20 GMT
I thought I'd showcase this video in light of thekillswitchhh getting a ridiculous lap time in the Penumbra, a whole 3 seconds faster than my own and faster than my lap time with 130+ fps I wonder if I was doing that without knowing that it was a thing. The track was just so bumpy that I was letting off quite often. I wonder... -Eva I think you probably did. When you hear the car suddenly get into pretty low revs it has short shifted. I also did it at Jetsam and since then I started using it. Because then I started looking in to it and realised it was very usefull, even if you are in a slow car  |
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adachishai
Member
Posts: 20 
Registered on: January 2016
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Post by adachishai on Apr 10, 2016 19:53:35 GMT
It works only for those with controllers I assume. So I am perfectly safe in my wonderful world of 'almost' pure racing with many chokes.
Tried controller once on this track. Made more chokes in the first half of the lap than in today's race combined. It's too late for me now.
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Orchan
Member
What am I doing? Probably making races in the Creator.
Posts: 184
Registered on: January 2016
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Post by Orchan on Apr 10, 2016 19:58:02 GMT
I wonder if I was doing that without knowing that it was a thing. The track was just so bumpy that I was letting off quite often. I wonder... -Eva I think you probably did. When you hear the car suddenly get into pretty low revs it has short shifted. I also did it at Jetsam and since then I started using it. Because then I started looking in to it and realised it was very usefull, even if you are in a slow car :p To be fair, I really don't like people abusing things like this. It shouldn't even be a thing, it's pretty close if not bug abusing. Curb boosing also goes into the same category, but did that really decrease your lap time by a whole 3 seconds? Because that's insane how much short shifting helps. |
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_ShediM_
Member
Posts: 242
Registered on: November 2015
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Post by _ShediM_ on Apr 10, 2016 20:11:46 GMT
I'm not sure if I was doing that either, I mean, I've heard of it but never really attempted to learn or anything. It's possible I guess since the track required a huge amount of throttle control when going over those bumps so that's possible I think.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Registered on: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2016 20:49:21 GMT
Orchan I think this track is just you can it or you can't. I mean, usually I am a little bit faster or equally fast as Eva, but as you can see today she absolutely demolished me with like 5(?) seconds per lap faster laptimes. So it's like killswitch had a better touch to the track than you did.
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Post by thekillswitchhh on Apr 10, 2016 20:55:42 GMT
Orchan I think this track is just you can it or you can't. I mean, usually I am a little bit faster or equally fast as Eva, but as you can see today she absolutely demolished me with like 5(?) seconds per lap faster laptimes. So it's like killswitch had a better touch to the track than you did. Yepp, I really like the city tracks on GTA V. Maybe as you have noticed because with the first round I came like 5th or 6th . I think these tracks indeed suit me really good |
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ryosuke
Member
Sultan Master
Posts: 439
Registered on: March 2015
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Post by ryosuke on Apr 10, 2016 20:55:50 GMT
on a 4 min track, 2 seconds difference per laptime are nothing. expecially with slow car where u can carry more speed almost everywhere
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Post by thekillswitchhh on Apr 10, 2016 21:01:13 GMT
on a 4 min track, 2 seconds difference per laptime are nothing. expecially with slow car where u can carry more speed almost everywhere Yeah. Like I said to Prismide when we were practising, the penumbra can carry a lot more speed through the corners then you think. And I really mean a lot. Ow and there was one little secret line Orchan... Hehe lol. I'll show you tomorrow |
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Post by Prismide on Apr 10, 2016 21:10:04 GMT
on a 4 min track, 2 seconds difference per laptime are nothing. expecially with slow car where u can carry more speed almost everywhere Yeah. Like I said to Prismide when we were practising, the penumbra can carry a lot more speed through the corners then you think. And I really mean a lot. Ow and there was one little secret line Orchan ... Hehe lol. I'll show you tomorrow If it's the one I showed you, He already knows it. Saw him doing it when chasing him down. |
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Post by CHILLI on Apr 10, 2016 21:15:43 GMT
Getting asked about this again... Well then.
There are a lot of factors to be taken into account here. Steering smoothing, framerate-dependant timestep, non-deterministic physics by design (hey it's a game, ok? not a controlled environment), strangely decreased decay time for speed compensation @ 120fps+, human error + different task timings (world streaming, garbage collection just to name a few) because of that human error potentially adding to the effect & maybe a few other things.
- Steering smoothing + fps-dependant timestep + non-deterministic physics. Welcome to the world of games. At a higher framerate everything bound to that timing will react sooner, more frequently and smoother (if based on time delta). This alone will result in slightly different behaviour by the nature of how it's designed to function and we're not even close to add human error to the mix yet.
- Speed compensation based on frametime drops + tasks (world streaming, garbage collection etc). The first was probably to compensate for the second, but the bi-effect is that it can be abused. And different tasks are called at different times, so our human inability to do the same thing twice will cause a lot of the tasks to do their stuff at different times. This will result in micro-hiccups in the framerate, too small for us to notice, making the non-deterministic physics to show its true nature in addition to the speed compensation potentially triggering at the wrong times. And what do we get if all this can happen more frequently? More strange bi-effects and the cycle repeats.
- Human error can easily cause a difference of about 0.25 - 0.5sec / minute. This in addition to triggering the oddities mentioned above + playing a non-competitive game at a very high competitive level = all the things that are meant to make the game more enjoyable to play are now used as weapons against each other.
So what are our options in the end?
Either agree to play the game at a sub-120 framerate to keep these oddities to a minimum or go and play something else. If we cant accept the fact that it's us turning a "fun"-game into a competitive game it's our problem, then the only possible outcome is the equivalent to fighting over who the freaking plastic shovel o' framerate belongs to like in pre-school. This is our problem so it's up to us to agree on a solution that will work out the best for the majority of us.
My suggestion is to make sure the game is running a little below 120fps for events, because all tests I've been part of have been pointing towards that 120fps threshold is the cause of the real problem. But yes, a higher framerate will still give players a tiny advantage. The kind of advantage that gives our human error factor a slightly greater margin of error that is. This kind of advantage applies to damn near every single game out there that isnt turn-based, so learn to deal with it mkay? Just my wallet full of cents. ...Man I should make a thread on this, shouldnt I? Damn my list of threads-to-make is becoming quite long...
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Post by thekillswitchhh on Apr 10, 2016 21:36:24 GMT
Getting asked about this again... Well then. There are a lot of factors to be taken into account here. Steering smoothing, framerate-dependant timestep, non-deterministic physics by design (hey it's a game, ok? not a controlled environment), strangely decreased decay time for speed compensation @ 120fps+, human error + different task timings (world streaming, garbage collection just to name a few) because of that human error potentially adding to the effect & maybe a few other things. - Steering smoothing + fps-dependant timestep + non-deterministic physics. Welcome to the world of games. At a higher framerate everything bound to that timing will react sooner, more frequently and smoother (if based on time delta). This alone will result in slightly different behaviour by the nature of how it's designed to function and we're not even close to add human error to the mix yet. - Speed compensation based on frametime drops + tasks (world streaming, garbage collection etc). The first was probably to compensate for the second, but the bi-effect is that it can be abused. And different tasks are called at different times, so our human inability to do the same thing twice will cause a lot of the tasks to do their stuff at different times. This will result in micro-hiccups in the framerate, too small for us to notice, making the non-deterministic physics to show its true nature in addition to the speed compensation potentially triggering at the wrong times. And what do we get if all this can happen more frequently? More strange bi-effects and the cycle repeats. - Human error can easily cause a difference of about 0.25 - 0.5sec / minute. This in addition to triggering the oddities mentioned above + playing a non-competitive game at a very high competitive level = all the things that are meant to make the game more enjoyable to play are now used as weapons against each other. So what are our options in the end?
Either agree to play the game at a sub-120 framerate to keep these oddities to a minimum or go and play something else. If we cant accept the fact that it's us turning a "fun"-game into a competitive game it's our problem, then the only possible outcome is the equivalent to fighting over who the freaking plastic shovel o' framerate belongs to like in pre-school. This is our problem so it's up to us to agree on a solution that will work out the best for the majority of us. My suggestion is to make sure the game is running a little below 120fps for events, because all tests I've been part of have been pointing towards that 120fps threshold is the cause of the real problem. But yes, a higher framerate will still give players a tiny advantage. The kind of advantage that gives our human error factor a slightly greater margin of error that is. This kind of advantage applies to damn near every single game out there that isnt turn-based, so learn to deal with it mkay? Just my wallet full of cents. ...Man I should make a thread on this, shouldnt I? Damn my list of threads-to-make is becoming quite long... Damn long post. I didn't understand most about it but I did understand some things here and there. I think you mean the higher the FPS the more likely to get a quicker laptime right? And that everyone should try to get around 120 FPS? ( My pc can't even do 60 ) |
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st0cking
Member
Posts: 1,137
Registered on: November 2015
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Post by st0cking on Apr 10, 2016 21:42:53 GMT
Getting asked about this again... Well then. There are a lot of factors to be taken into account here. Steering smoothing, framerate-dependant timestep, non-deterministic physics by design (hey it's a game, ok? not a controlled environment), strangely decreased decay time for speed compensation @ 120fps+, human error + different task timings (world streaming, garbage collection just to name a few) because of that human error potentially adding to the effect & maybe a few other things. - Steering smoothing + fps-dependant timestep + non-deterministic physics. Welcome to the world of games. At a higher framerate everything bound to that timing will react sooner, more frequently and smoother (if based on time delta). This alone will result in slightly different behaviour by the nature of how it's designed to function and we're not even close to add human error to the mix yet. - Speed compensation based on frametime drops + tasks (world streaming, garbage collection etc). The first was probably to compensate for the second, but the bi-effect is that it can be abused. And different tasks are called at different times, so our human inability to do the same thing twice will cause a lot of the tasks to do their stuff at different times. This will result in micro-hiccups in the framerate, too small for us to notice, making the non-deterministic physics to show its true nature in addition to the speed compensation potentially triggering at the wrong times. And what do we get if all this can happen more frequently? More strange bi-effects and the cycle repeats. - Human error can easily cause a difference of about 0.25 - 0.5sec / minute. This in addition to triggering the oddities mentioned above + playing a non-competitive game at a very high competitive level = all the things that are meant to make the game more enjoyable to play are now used as weapons against each other. So what are our options in the end?
Either agree to play the game at a sub-120 framerate to keep these oddities to a minimum or go and play something else. If we cant accept the fact that it's us turning a "fun"-game into a competitive game it's our problem, then the only possible outcome is the equivalent to fighting over who the freaking plastic shovel o' framerate belongs to like in pre-school. This is our problem so it's up to us to agree on a solution that will work out the best for the majority of us. My suggestion is to make sure the game is running a little below 120fps for events, because all tests I've been part of have been pointing towards that 120fps threshold is the cause of the real problem. But yes, a higher framerate will still give players a tiny advantage. The kind of advantage that gives our human error factor a slightly greater margin of error that is. This kind of advantage applies to damn near every single game out there that isnt turn-based, so learn to deal with it mkay? Just my wallet full of cents. ...Man I should make a thread on this, shouldnt I? Damn my list of threads-to-make is becoming quite long... Damn long post. I didn't understand most about it but I did understand some things here and there. I think you mean the higher the FPS the more likely to get a quicker laptime right? And that everyone should try to get around 120 FPS? ( My pc can't even do 60 ) He suggested to limit it to 120fps max for the events. I'm personally more fan of limiting it to 60fps, which some events like F1 and SATCC already expect/require of their players. |
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Post by CHILLI on Apr 10, 2016 21:43:53 GMT
My suggestion is to make sure the game is running a little below 120fps for events, because all tests I've been part of have been pointing towards that 120fps threshold is the cause of the real problem. Damn long post. I didn't understand most about it but I did understand some things here and there. I think you mean the higher the FPS the more likely to get a quicker laptime right? And that everyone should try to get around 120 FPS? ( My pc can't even do 60 ) The part I left of my quote means that going at or above 120fps is a bad idea, hence why I said "threshold". Feel free to play at whatever framerate you want as long as it doesnt reach or go beyond 120fps. |
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Post by Sarah on Apr 10, 2016 22:11:34 GMT
I'd like to thank everyone involved in this event and especially Orchan for organising and pulling me in as Neutren's replacement.
This has been my very first NoDo championship and I must say I very much enjoyed it. I'm happy to have made some new friends and I hope to see you all in a racing environment again soon =D
Much love <3
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