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Post by Benimi on Aug 1, 2016 8:47:40 GMT
Actually the Verstappen penalty on Monaco, adds nothing to this discussion but people still think he was brake checked. Data actually shows Grosjean braked 5 meters later than in the previous lap It adds to the conversation who is biased. *cough* Jeff *cough*
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ReRoKo24
Member
Posts: 24
Registered on: June 2015
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Post by ReRoKo24 on Aug 1, 2016 9:02:21 GMT
I can taste the biased Dutch rooting for someone that clearly is on the border of crashing someone every race. And yes I dislike Verstappen, but I dislike Rosberg more, so I am not biased I know I'm biased, I don't give a shit. I'm just glad there finally is a Dutch driver who does well in F1. {Spoiler} You have a very loose understanding of "salty" or "salt" meaning.
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ReRoKo24
Member
Posts: 24
Registered on: June 2015
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Post by ReRoKo24 on Aug 1, 2016 9:04:05 GMT
Yes, okay. He didn't do it on purpose. So he shouldn't get a penalty because he didn't do it on purpose? He braked to late, let the car straight and turned very late. As a result he ran Verstappen wide off the track and got a (relatively light) penalty. I don't really see the problem. Also remember that Verstappen had to say something about it, otherwise he might (theoretically) even get penalised for track limits himself. And yes, stuards are less consistent than my Internet connection, but I wouldn't bring up this example as an obvious misstep. (Also hasn't Lauda said it was Rosberg's mistake? I cam vaguely remember something like that ) I just agreed with what was said, I felt that it was a racing accident and no penalty was warranted. Max moving clearly had a big effect on Rosbergs manouver, if he turned sooner he'd probably slide out of the corner. That is just my opinion. You know what was my initial reaction during the race? I was pissed at Nico and was happy he got the penalty. I like Verstappen and I don't like Rosberg, I'm also rooting for Lewis to win another title. But I am capable of looking at things objectively.
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RichardQG
Member
AKA Official Lag King of NoDo
Posts: 100
Registered on: November 2015
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Post by RichardQG on Aug 1, 2016 15:15:42 GMT
Well, I have nothing against Rosberg and I'd rather see him win the world championship than Hamilton, but that's not gonna happen anytime soon I don't know all the rules or anything, but as far as I know there isn't a rule against moving in the braking zone, but there is one against running someone (who is fully alongside you) out of the corner. But what I know for sure, is that when I pull out a move like that in GTA (when there's no lag involved) everyone is going to call me out for it and I'd have to wait for him/her.
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Post by Benimi on Aug 1, 2016 15:30:23 GMT
I don't know all the rules or anything, but as far as I know there isn't a rule against moving in the braking zone, but there is one against running someone (who is fully alongside you) out of the corner. There IS a rule, because it is dangerous as hell, F1 drivers most of the time brakes near the traction limit, where the car is not able to change direction, so if you need to change direction - someone blocking you line-, you need to brake less, which means higher speed to the corner, where the car should arrive with speed it can turn in close to the tracktion limit, since your car is going faster, because you changed direction, you will not be able to do the corner properly, which means you are going to over shoot it, which is dangerous, if someone is right in front of you taking the corner. A worse scenarion is: the driver who is behind the one who changed direction might not ba able to do it -traction limit- which will end up the car behind going up on the car infront, destroying both drivers race. (I'll get here the official rule book, when I can.)
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Post by Benimi on Aug 1, 2016 19:14:47 GMT
First, the FIA is a French based organization, and the main rulebook is in baguette, and in different interpretation that's the one that counts. (Factory teams in WTCC had issues with this) I can't speak baguette, sorry.
Second, this point is about deffending, and listing what you can NOT do, because it is too dangerous.
Perfect example why you can't change direction suddenly right before and during braking zones is Perez and Massa incident in 2014 Canada.
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RichardQG
Member
AKA Official Lag King of NoDo
Posts: 100
Registered on: November 2015
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Post by RichardQG on Aug 1, 2016 20:19:30 GMT
Fair enough. My English and racing understanding aren't good enough to properly interpretate that So I'll accept that you're right. But why is Rosberg penalised and not Verstappen? I am sure the stuards know the rules better than we do. There are major inconsistencies in their penalties, but penalising the wrong guy is pretty a big thing. Well, what I think is that the rules are conflicting in some scenario's. The stuards simply thought that what Rosberg did was far worse than what Verstappen did and therefore deserved a 5 second penalty. I agree that this interpretation of rules is not consistent amongst the GP's.
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Post by Benimi on Aug 1, 2016 20:28:49 GMT
The biggest difference between this penalty and the one in Austria, is this was made during the race, without speaking with the drivers, and without the telemetry data. What Rosberg did would worth a penalty, if it wouldn't be for avoiding a crash. This decision was rushed, and because of that is why people questioning if it was the right decision or not.
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Post by arsenalgunner20 on Aug 1, 2016 20:37:07 GMT
The biggest difference between this penalty and the one in Austria, is this was made during the race, without speaking with the drivers, and without the telemetry data. What Rosberg did would worth a penalty, if it wouldn't be for avoiding a crash. This decision was rushed, and because of that is why people questioning if it was the right decision or not. I doubt you were with the Marshalls when they discussed this, so how can you know if they didn't check the data? Disclaimer: I haven't seen an article stating the lack of usage of data.
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Post by Benimi on Aug 1, 2016 21:13:13 GMT
The biggest difference between this penalty and the one in Austria, is this was made during the race, without speaking with the drivers, and without the telemetry data. What Rosberg did would worth a penalty, if it wouldn't be for avoiding a crash. This decision was rushed, and because of that is why people questioning if it was the right decision or not. I doubt you were with the Marshalls when they discussed this, so how can you know if they didn't check the data? Disclaimer: I haven't seen an article stating the lack of usage of data.We know nothing for sure. Any of us knows nothing for sure. I came to this conclusion, because the decision was made within minutes, which isn't enought to search for the proper part of the data, and analize it properly.
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Post by arsenalgunner20 on Aug 1, 2016 21:14:27 GMT
I doubt you were with the Marshalls when they discussed this, so how can you know if they didn't check the data? Disclaimer: I haven't seen an article stating the lack of usage of data.We know nothing for sure. Any of us knows nothing for sure. I came to this conclusion, because the decision was made within minutes, which isn't enought to search for the proper part of the data, and analize it properly. Well I am sure that this isn't the first time Stewards needed to decide on something so I think they can make decisions fast, if needed.
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Post by Benimi on Aug 1, 2016 21:23:58 GMT
We know nothing for sure. Any of us knows nothing for sure. I came to this conclusion, because the decision was made within minutes, which isn't enought to search for the proper part of the data, and analize it properly. Well I am sure that this isn't the first time Stewards needed to decide on something so I think they can make decisions fast, if needed. You know they have 3 different people every race, with 1 ex racing driver helping them, right? They are not the same group every race.
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Post by arsenalgunner20 on Aug 1, 2016 21:26:34 GMT
Well I am sure that this isn't the first time Stewards needed to decide on something so I think they can make decisions fast, if needed. You know they have 3 different people every race, with 1 ex racing driver helping them, right? They are not the same group every race. www.formula1.com/en/championship/inside-f1/rules-regs/Officials.html 7 people, and I'm pretty sure Charlie Whiting is there every race.
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Post by Benimi on Aug 1, 2016 21:31:50 GMT
Well, Charlie Whiting said after Hungary he would have started an investigation, which means, he wasn't in a position to make a decision like this.
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Post by arsenalgunner20 on Aug 1, 2016 21:34:13 GMT
Well, Charlie Whiting said after Hungary he would have started an investigation, which means, he wasn't in a position to make a decision like this. None of them is in a position to make such a decision on their own, that doesn't take away that Charlie is always there.
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