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Post by endersai on Aug 1, 2016 21:57:52 GMT
I doubt you were with the Marshalls when they discussed this, so how can you know if they didn't check the data? Disclaimer: I haven't seen an article stating the lack of usage of data.We know nothing for sure. Any of us knows nothing for sure. I came to this conclusion, because the decision was made within minutes, which isn't enought to search for the proper part of the data, and analize it properly.
So you made an assumption.
I love these late braking overtakes. I will use them in any racing sim at any time, and I've done what rosberg did here. That is, go for it despite it being far too fucking late to pull that move off.
Max didn't expect to need to defend because he naively assumed that Rosberg had basic racecraft. A hilarious mistake for the young Dutch driver, for sure. Even more hilarious is that Rosberg thinks it was an "awesome" move.
That hairpin turn is one you arrive at with serious speed. And if you watch the video, like actually watch it, you will see that Max almost defends and then realises the move was idiotic and you can't defend against Germans in cars that make them look better than they are. So he pulls out of the defensive move, but not enough that it alters Nico's trajectory. Whether or not Max moved is not material to Rosberg forcing him off the track:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo6K10ITrvA
Simply put, Nico Rosberg is the Felipe Massa of today. A never-will-be who thinks a championship is possible. And he cannot battle like Hamilton, Ricciardo, Bottas or Verstappen can - it either involves crashing or just outright cheating, cough Monaco cough. He's scum, and the move was reckless. If it had been any other driver people would rightly decry him, but young Max? Well he's better than I was at that age, boo, hiss, such danger!
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ovivoJR
Member
World Championship´s: Grotti F1 2015, Formula E , SATCC Season 1, SATCC Season 4
Posts: 1,512
Registered on: May 2015
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Post by ovivoJR on Aug 1, 2016 23:21:10 GMT
We know nothing for sure. Any of us knows nothing for sure. I came to this conclusion, because the decision was made within minutes, which isn't enought to search for the proper part of the data, and analize it properly.
So you made an assumption.
I love these late braking overtakes. I will use them in any racing sim at any time, and I've done what rosberg did here. That is, go for it despite it being far too fucking late to pull that move off.
Max didn't expect to need to defend because he naively assumed that Rosberg had basic racecraft. A hilarious mistake for the young Dutch driver, for sure. Even more hilarious is that Rosberg thinks it was an "awesome" move.
That hairpin turn is one you arrive at with serious speed. And if you watch the video, like actually watch it, you will see that Max almost defends and then realises the move was idiotic and you can't defend against Germans in cars that make them look better than they are. So he pulls out of the defensive move, but not enough that it alters Nico's trajectory. Whether or not Max moved is not material to Rosberg forcing him off the track:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo6K10ITrvA
Simply put, Nico Rosberg is the Felipe Massa of today. A never-will-be who thinks a championship is possible. And he cannot battle like Hamilton, Ricciardo, Bottas or Verstappen can - it either involves crashing or just outright cheating, cough Monaco cough. He's scum, and the move was reckless. If it had been any other driver people would rightly decry him, but young Max? Well he's better than I was at that age, boo, hiss, such danger!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7Cc7W1T2zQ Where is the diffrence between this push off the road and the one of last weekend? Your right, the penalty xD
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Post by endersai on Aug 1, 2016 23:29:36 GMT
Yeah and that's been brought up by the BBC guys when discussing Austria.
Lewis was wrong there; Nico was wrong in Austria and in Germany. He's just not a very good racer. We keep seeing evidence of this.
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Post by endersai on Aug 2, 2016 3:31:15 GMT
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Post by Benimi on Aug 2, 2016 6:53:50 GMT
We know nothing for sure. Any of us knows nothing for sure. I came to this conclusion, because the decision was made within minutes, which isn't enought to search for the proper part of the data, and analize it properly.
So you made an assumption. The same as you did, when you thinked that Rosberg was braking late in the first place, and not only shoot out the corner, because he needed to adjuste to Verstappen's (dangerous) move. It is a fact, that he needed to adjust, and it is a fact, that had an effect to his cornering ability. thisWhat was the difference with that overshoot and the one in Germany? The deffending driver overshoot the corner as well, so he stucked on the outside. Also, noone was forced Ricciardo to change line, and braking force here, so this is definitelly a mistake. EDIT: Since I know how data mining works, the time between the accident and the penalty is not even enought to synchronize the data from Mercedes with the camera footages. So I'm quite sure they did it without the telemetry.
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Post by endersai on Aug 2, 2016 7:29:05 GMT
He barely needed to adjust, benimi. Barely. Like not enough to make any material difference. Hence the stewards gave him not only the 5sec penalty, but the 2 penalty points after the race. It was a dangerous, stupid move. Also, I literally have conditioned SabertoothWolF to defend the inside if we're racing in pCARS or GTA because he knows 110% of the time I will go for a late braking overtake. I know the move well. It's a personal favourite. By the way, your video just illustrate that Rosberg is fucking terrible at overtaking. He just cannot battle, and that's why Hamilton can fight from pitlane to podium and Rosberg just cannot recover from a bad start after setting pole position. Rosberg is like those guys who only race non-contact in GTA but can't battle in contact races.
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Post by Benimi on Aug 2, 2016 7:53:52 GMT
He barely needed to adjust, benimi. Barely. Like not enough to make any material difference. Hence the stewards gave him not only the 5sec penalty, but the 2 penalty points after the race. It was a dangerous, stupid move. Also, I literally have conditioned SabertoothWolF to defend the inside if we're racing in pCARS or GTA because he knows 110% of the time I will go for a late braking overtake. I know the move well. It's a personal favourite. By the way, your video just illustrate that Rosberg is fucking terrible at overtaking. He just cannot battle, and that's why Hamilton can fight from pitlane to podium and Rosberg just cannot recover from a bad start after setting pole position. Rosberg is like those guys who only race non-contact in GTA but can't battle in contact races. He almost touched the apex while braking, rather than start the corner arond 1.5 carlenght from ideal. That is a huge difference.
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Post by jeffreyb1990 on Aug 2, 2016 8:03:39 GMT
He barely needed to adjust, benimi. Barely. Like not enough to make any material difference. Hence the stewards gave him not only the 5sec penalty, but the 2 penalty points after the race. It was a dangerous, stupid move. Also, I literally have conditioned SabertoothWolF to defend the inside if we're racing in pCARS or GTA because he knows 110% of the time I will go for a late braking overtake. I know the move well. It's a personal favourite. By the way, your video just illustrate that Rosberg is fucking terrible at overtaking. He just cannot battle, and that's why Hamilton can fight from pitlane to podium and Rosberg just cannot recover from a bad start after setting pole position. Rosberg is like those guys who only race non-contact in GTA but can't battle in contact races. He almost touched the apex while braking, rather than start the corner arond 1.5 carlenght from ideal. That is a huge difference. That's the line he chose himself. As said, he barely had to adjust. So he braked to late, took a horrible line into the corner, kept driving straight and pushed Max of the track. That sound like a horrible overtake attempt, doesn't it?
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Post by Benimi on Aug 2, 2016 8:26:26 GMT
He almost touched the apex while braking, rather than start the corner arond 1.5 carlenght from ideal. That is a huge difference. That's the line he chose himself. As said, he barely had to adjust. So he braked to late, took a horrible line into the corner, kept driving straight and pushed Max of the track. That sound like a horrible overtake attempt, doesn't it? He didn't choose that lien when he started braking, he needed to change direction after Verstappen changed direction way too late. Rosberg decision was made according to Verstappen would follow the rules, and not change direction during braking, which did happened. If Rosberg could brake straight, without a Red Bull blocking his way, he would made the corner.
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Post by jeffreyb1990 on Aug 2, 2016 8:31:43 GMT
That's the line he chose himself. As said, he barely had to adjust. So he braked to late, took a horrible line into the corner, kept driving straight and pushed Max of the track. That sound like a horrible overtake attempt, doesn't it? He didn't choose that lien when he started braking, he needed to change direction after Verstappen changed direction way too late. Rosberg decision was made according to Verstappen would follow the rules, and not change direction during braking, which did happened. If Rosberg could brake straight, without a Red Bull blocking his way, he would made the corner. Do you even read? He barely had to change his line, because Verstappen backed out of defending, probably because he saw how idiotic the move of Rosberg was.
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Post by Benimi on Aug 2, 2016 8:39:36 GMT
He didn't choose that lien when he started braking, he needed to change direction after Verstappen changed direction way too late. Rosberg decision was made according to Verstappen would follow the rules, and not change direction during braking, which did happened. If Rosberg could brake straight, without a Red Bull blocking his way, he would made the corner. Do you even read? He barely had to change his line, because Verstappen backed out of defending, probably because he saw how idiotic the move of Rosberg was. Jeffrey pls. Verstappen backed out, after the 2 cars were side-by-side, because he didn't want to crash, like Hamilton, who did not backed out. Not when he drove in front of the Mercedes. It is not relevant to the case. Rosberg's line was compromised in a big way. More than half of the tracks width! He was about to start the corner from the left side of the track, just next to the middle of the road, but instead he need to turn right at the apex, on the far right. Rosberg's line was compromised after he started braking, and he couldn't brake more.
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Post by jeffreyb1990 on Aug 2, 2016 8:48:24 GMT
Do you even read? He barely had to change his line, because Verstappen backed out of defending, probably because he saw how idiotic the move of Rosberg was. Jeffrey pls. Verstappen backed out, after the 2 cars were side-by-side, because he didn't want to crash, like Hamilton, who did not backed out. Not when he drove in front of the Mercedes. It is not relevant to the case. Rosberg's line was compromised in a big way. More than half of the tracks width! He was about to start the corner from the left side of the track, just next to the middle of the road, but instead he need to turn right at the apex, on the far right. Rosberg's line was compromised after he started braking, and he couldn't brake more. I think we have to agree to disagree, because otherwise we'll be doing this the whole summerbreak.
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Post by Benimi on Aug 2, 2016 9:08:02 GMT
Jeffrey pls. Verstappen backed out, after the 2 cars were side-by-side, because he didn't want to crash, like Hamilton, who did not backed out. Not when he drove in front of the Mercedes. It is not relevant to the case. Rosberg's line was compromised in a big way. More than half of the tracks width! He was about to start the corner from the left side of the track, just next to the middle of the road, but instead he need to turn right at the apex, on the far right. Rosberg's line was compromised after he started braking, and he couldn't brake more. I think we have to agree to disagree, because otherwise we'll be doing this the whole summerbreak. Well, I don't have a summerbreak, so why limit there? Until you can prove me wrong with proper data, or someone's statement who HAS access to the proper data, I'm not changing my point of view, which is based on physics rules. With the same amount of force (traction limit) you can't keep a moving object with the same pr higher speed (can't brake more, if you started braking) around a circle which has less radius. Also the speed is quadratic compater to the radius. I don't know the proper width of the track, but the standart is 10m, so the racing line's radius is around 10m, if you leave a car with next to you, it becomes around 8m, which is already a 0.8 multiplier, which means 64% speed loss, if you want to take the turn. Compare this to the line Rosberg was forced to take, which had like 4m (leaving space on the outside of the turn), compare this to the 8m, what Rosberg choose is half of the radius, he should turn 25% of the speed he wanted to turn. This is HUGE. Science biatch
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Post by Oh_Darn on Aug 2, 2016 9:12:47 GMT
I think we have to agree to disagree, because otherwise we'll be doing this the whole summerbreak. Well, I don't have a summerbreak, so why limit there? Until you can prove me wrong with proper data, or someone's statement who HAS access to the proper data, I'm not changing my point of view, which is based on physics rules. With the same amount of force (traction limit) you can't keep a moving object with the same pr higher speed (can't brake more, if you started braking) around a circle which has less radius. Also the speed is quadratic compater to the radius. I don't know the proper width of the track, but the standart is 10m, so the racing line's radius is around 10m, if you leave a car with next to you, it becomes around 8m, which is already a 0.8 multiplier, which means 64% speed loss, if you want to take the turn. Compare this to the line Rosberg was forced to take, which had like 4m (leaving space on the outside of the turn), compare this to the 8m, what Rosberg choose is half of the radius, he should turn 25% of the speed he wanted to turn. This is HUGE. Science biatchWhy do you keep repeating yourself over and over again? It's kinda pointless.
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Post by Benimi on Aug 2, 2016 9:16:17 GMT
Well, I don't have a summerbreak, so why limit there? Until you can prove me wrong with proper data, or someone's statement who HAS access to the proper data, I'm not changing my point of view, which is based on physics rules. With the same amount of force (traction limit) you can't keep a moving object with the same pr higher speed (can't brake more, if you started braking) around a circle which has less radius. Also the speed is quadratic compater to the radius. I don't know the proper width of the track, but the standart is 10m, so the racing line's radius is around 10m, if you leave a car with next to you, it becomes around 8m, which is already a 0.8 multiplier, which means 64% speed loss, if you want to take the turn. Compare this to the line Rosberg was forced to take, which had like 4m (leaving space on the outside of the turn), compare this to the 8m, what Rosberg choose is half of the radius, he should turn 25% of the speed he wanted to turn. This is HUGE. Science biatchWhy do you keep repeating yourself over and over again? It's kinda pointless. I wrote down the reasons, which was obvious to me, but it looks like wasn't for others. I showed my theory's calculations, I'm done here.
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