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Post by redlaserbm on Mar 2, 2017 23:52:47 GMT
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Tsupernami
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Post by Tsupernami on Mar 3, 2017 8:20:29 GMT
How come the penalties carry over to next season? That's not done in normal motorsports as far as I'm aware
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Post by FriendlyBaron on Mar 3, 2017 9:19:08 GMT
How come the penalties carry over to next season? That's not done in normal motorsports as far as I'm aware We aren't normal motorsports. Real life (ie Nascar) penatlies are monetary, which we can't do, or they require a drive through pit or other type of black flag, which we can't do. Also, F1 driver penalty points do carry over based on months, not seasons. And if they didn't carry, people would just fuck around the last race. |
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Post by Sunken on Mar 3, 2017 9:45:18 GMT
I might aswell not participate in next quali and still get a decent starting position lol
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Tsupernami
Member
Posts: 1,414
Registered on: November 2015
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Discord: Tsupernami#6025
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Post by Tsupernami on Mar 3, 2017 10:02:47 GMT
How come the penalties carry over to next season? That's not done in normal motorsports as far as I'm aware We aren't normal motorsports. Real life (ie Nascar) penatlies are monetary, which we can't do, or they require a drive through pit or other type of black flag, which we can't do. Also, F1 driver penalty points do carry over based on months, not seasons. And if they didn't carry, people would just fuck around the last race. I understand that, but to lose 10 positions in qualifying for two warnings in the very first race of a brand new season seems mightily unfair. I already get zero points from the next race because I have a other commitments, a further penalty seems overboard. This isn't a threat, but it certainly will influence any reason to join next season. I can't commit to more than one event a week to be honest, so if my intention is to get involved in a long event, this one won't exactly be my first choice. |
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Post by FriendlyBaron on Mar 3, 2017 10:24:32 GMT
We aren't normal motorsports. Real life (ie Nascar) penatlies are monetary, which we can't do, or they require a drive through pit or other type of black flag, which we can't do. Also, F1 driver penalty points do carry over based on months, not seasons. And if they didn't carry, people would just fuck around the last race. I understand that, but to lose 10 positions in qualifying for two warnings in the very first race of a brand new season seems mightily unfair. I already get zero points from the next race because I have a other commitments, a further penalty seems overboard. This isn't a threat, but it certainly will influence any reason to join next season. I can't commit to more than one event a week to be honest, so if my intention is to get involved in a long event, this one won't exactly be my first choice. How would you rather the penatly be applied then? We don't have many other options besides turning it into a crew level warning, which is much more serious. Just dropping the penalty doesn't work, drivers need to be held accountable or it is unfair to people who served penatlies earlier in the season. Points penatlies or 'official finishing positions' being modified is not used because it does not discourage drivers not competing for a top spot, or who only guest drive from time to time. If somebody cheats or otherwise breaks rules to place higher or even win the race, saying 'well you didnt actually win' alone is not enough of a deterrent, they still had the physical satisfaction if that position. They need the threat of a punishment in future races to be a proper deterrent. Personally, if someone wants the ability to freely break the event rules without consequences, then I don't want them on the track with me. Almost all of the top 10 drivers have gotten a warning or penalty and overcame it to still be in the top (only countach and myself have clean report cards, I think). |
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Tsupernami
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Post by Tsupernami on Mar 3, 2017 11:23:51 GMT
I understand that, but to lose 10 positions in qualifying for two warnings in the very first race of a brand new season seems mightily unfair. I already get zero points from the next race because I have a other commitments, a further penalty seems overboard. This isn't a threat, but it certainly will influence any reason to join next season. I can't commit to more than one event a week to be honest, so if my intention is to get involved in a long event, this one won't exactly be my first choice. How would you rather the penatly be applied then? We don't have many other options besides turning it into a crew level warning, which is much more serious. Just dropping the penalty doesn't work, drivers need to be held accountable or it is unfair to people who served penatlies earlier in the season. Points penatlies or 'official finishing positions' being modified is not used because it does not discourage drivers not competing for a top spot, or who only guest drive from time to time. If somebody cheats or otherwise breaks rules to place higher or even win the race, saying 'well you didnt actually win' alone is not enough of a deterrent, they still had the physical satisfaction if that position. They need the threat of a punishment in future races to be a proper deterrent. Personally, if someone wants the ability to freely break the event rules without consequences, then I don't want them on the track with me. Almost all of the top 10 drivers have gotten a warning or penalty and overcame it to still be in the top (only countach and myself have clean report cards, I think). Based on the nature of my respective warnings, one was from being in the zone and not noticing a safety car and hitting someone going slow, the second from cutting a corner slightly too much, as no one actually lost anything here, I at most expected a time penalty. As silkie was the person behind me for the second incident, and also behind me at the chequered flag, ultimately I think that a time penalty would have been necessary as it would have effectively swapped out positions. At least, that's how I would have interpreted it. I understand the points you're making, as without penalties in a final race, someone could effectively just go full retard and ruin other races. But I think seasons should be kept within seasons, after all, points don't carry forward. What if the directly affected driver doesn't race in the next season, they won't feel the benefit of the offending driver's penalty? If someone does go overboard, wouldn't a crew level warning be more appropriate anyway? |
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Post by redlaserbm on Mar 3, 2017 19:05:21 GMT
Hi Tsupernami, We're sorry that you're upset at the penalties you've received. However, even minor infractions must catch up with someone at some point, and we need a way of deterring offenders from committing repeat violations of the rules. I mean, crashing under safety car is bad. So is exceeding the track limits to gain an advantage and not relinquishing that advantage in a timely manner. It was made clear in this thread that multiple warnings will earn you a grid penalty. Now, it was not made clear until recently what would happen if a participant didn't serve the penalty by the end of the season, and the committee up until now has exercised loose judgement in determining under what circumstances should multiple warnings constitute a penalty (Again, I'm not a big fan of a excessively formal system which limits the range of appropriate actions that can be taken on an incident, but I did inform the committee after race 3 to consider issuing grid penalties for participants who had 2 warnings.) Consequently, we're taking measures at this time to more effectively assess on-track incidents for season 2 and deliver to participants a set of guidelines which will lay out more thoroughly what penalties they should expect to get for whatever non-kosher methods they want to try on track. That all being said, the penalty you have been assessed is final. It only lasts for one race, the consequence is a couple more cars to pass at the start, it really should not be taken as a big deal. If you wish to discuss the incident further you are welcome to PM the whole of the committee on the matter. |
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Tsupernami
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Post by Tsupernami on Mar 3, 2017 19:36:36 GMT
I want to make it clear that it's not the fact I received a penalty that I disagree with, it's the manner in how it is applied. It's merely an observation of the rules that I think aren't balanced or fair in how the penalty is applied.
I don't want to remove my penalty and I don't want to undermine the hard work the committee puts in, but could a message be given to the committee that I think the rule of taking penalties forward to the next season is wrong and should be changed in my opinion. I think my biggest concern is that fact that as I can't race this weekend, I effectively suffer twice, and I'm sure there are others in a similar boat.
Thank you for the effort you've all put it to run the event so far and I would love to partake next season. I'll just have to analyse my real life time constraints to see which events I am able to take part in.
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Post by positivetension on Mar 3, 2017 20:59:05 GMT
I don't mind having my penalty transfer to next season however I think ultimately I would prefer a time penalty so that the same race and season are affected by my bad judgement in that race*. Given that its been like this for the entire season I appreciate it would be inconsistent to change it now.
* this was one race where I happened to have more corner speed then some people and the corner entry kept on giving me the impression that there might just be room on the inside until there definitely wasn't.
Edit: Maybe there could be a one off race between now and the next championship where the penalties also apply?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 2:15:07 GMT
My POV of the round 6:Just want to apologies to redlaserbm for being salty after the race, just want to say there is no hard feelings there anymore  GG to Grumples_Plox (grimreaper977) for becoming champion with a race to spare and another GG to Oh_Darn , for picking up his second win of the season and setting a blazing quick laptime.
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Post by redlaserbm on Mar 4, 2017 4:23:11 GMT
Guys the microphone on my headset is shitting bricks. I'm gonna need a little more help than usual from the people around me to run race 7. FriendlyBaron , key , imfishy EDIT: I found an old mic laying around, not very high quality but I should be able to get it working by the time the race starts. EDIT 2: Some last-minute touch-ups have been made to the track to decrease the likelihood of awkward wall bounces. |
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Post by Sunken on Mar 4, 2017 10:19:21 GMT
What kind of laptimes should we expect on this track?
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Post by redlaserbm on Mar 4, 2017 21:10:20 GMT
Props to you guys for keeping this race safety car free! The new pit rules didn't quite work as intended. I suspect they could work better if the slow pit didn't take as long--since it clearly won't work where the slow pit is the same length as the fast pit, there must be a "sweet spot" I can hit to make people actually want to take the early pits. At the same time some suggestions for different pit rules to try and get those pits spread out over the race have been coming my way where the rule set we used today might get thrown out if it turns out those other suggestions work better on the race track. We'll figure out something for season 2. The driver and team standings have been updated in the spreadsheet with the unofficial results from today. Congrats @zenvohh on win number two of the season and joining Oh_Darn as the only two drivers this season to score multiple wins! (Please message the committee promptly if you have any incidents which need to be investigated.) EDIT: My POV |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 23:36:04 GMT
My POV of the season finale; Lifeinvader Speedway:
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