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Post by Blade died for our sins on Feb 9, 2017 17:22:48 GMT
To further this discussion it has been said before there are certain cars that perform with certain spoilers (typically not the first spoiler on the list) i.e. both the Osiris and Turismo are better with the second spoiler. Anyone have/know of any others? I wouldn't say they're necessarily better with the seconds spoiler as it mostly boils down to personal preference. I prefer the handling with the higher spoilers on the Massacro and the Turismo for example, but I know other people prefer the lower spoiler... I am one of those people. IMO the smaller spoilers on the Massacro, Turismo & Osiris make them feel a lot more agile and I prefer my cars to be a little bit lively in the rear And you said what I was going to say with regards to personal preference. Very rarely, if ever, will one setup be objectively better than another and that's something I've seen people forget far too much when talking about this kind of stuff |
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TheEntraP3
Member
AH FRICK! I crashed...
Posts: 60 
Registered on: December 2016
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Post by TheEntraP3 on Feb 9, 2017 22:44:52 GMT
Yes you have a point, but it'd be hard to paste pages of code proving my point into the forums, plus to do so and find and highlight the spots I'm referring to would require time I don't have. Feel free to bring me actual evidence in the game's code and I'll believe you. I'm still skeptical that these setups actually do anything. The evidence is mostly locked away in either encrypted files or the exe itself Not really, just do some digging through the folders and .rpf files using OpenIV and you can find a lot of files pertaining to vehicle performance. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 9:35:52 GMT
Cheers fellas, always interested to have a second opinion on these things
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Post by AbeCede on Feb 10, 2017 12:07:27 GMT
Not really, just do some digging through the folders and .rpf files using OpenIV and you can find a lot of files pertaining to vehicle performance. There are numbers, yes. Like fMass, fInitialDragCoeff, fDownforceModifier, fPercentSubmerged, etc. etc. But what's really important is, how these many numbers relate to each other. And that is hidden in the code. |
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Post by equationunequal on Feb 10, 2017 12:36:49 GMT
Not really, just do some digging through the folders and .rpf files using OpenIV and you can find a lot of files pertaining to vehicle performance. There are numbers, yes. Like fMass, fInitialDragCoeff, fDownforceModifier, fPercentSubmerged, etc. etc. But what's really important is, how these many numbers relate to each other. And that is hidden in the code. This. Most of the hidden factors that change the handling of cars have to do with the hitbox / center of mass, that changes when you add cosmetic upgrades to your car. It is not something you can simply read from the code, but a by-effect of how the game engine handles things like suspension, gravity, etc. Want an example? Do some laps around a track with some high speed corners in the Feltzer with the big wing and immediately afterwards do the same with the small wing. Notice the difference? According to the game's code, there shouldn't be any. Both wings give the same traction benefit. However the big wing does make a change to the car's hitbox and as a result also has an effect on handling. Not something that's immediately apparent from looking at the game's code and handling files... |
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TheEntraP3
Member
AH FRICK! I crashed...
Posts: 60
Registered on: December 2016
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Post by TheEntraP3 on Feb 10, 2017 16:34:54 GMT
There are numbers, yes. Like fMass, fInitialDragCoeff, fDownforceModifier, fPercentSubmerged, etc. etc. But what's really important is, how these many numbers relate to each other. And that is hidden in the code. This. Most of the hidden factors that change the handling of cars have to do with the hitbox / center of mass, that changes when you add cosmetic upgrades to your car. It is not something you can simply read from the code, but a by-effect of how the game engine handles things like suspension, gravity, etc. Want an example? Do some laps around a track with some high speed corners in the Feltzer with the big wing and immediately afterwards do the same with the small wing. Notice the difference? According to the game's code, there shouldn't be any. Both wings give the same traction benefit. However the big wing does make a change to the car's hitbox and as a result also has an effect on handling. Not something that's immediately apparent from looking at the game's code and handling files... Never considered that. That could be the reason why trying to tie the values together has been such a brain teaser to me. Well, this will be a shocker but I admit I was fighting an uphill battle and expected to lose; however, I am interested where this discussion will go (excluding my stupid argument). |
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drknut
Member
Posts: 387
Registered on: August 2016
Steam: Knut
Social Club: DrKnut
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Post by drknut on Feb 10, 2017 19:22:49 GMT
It will lead to us pointing out that reading the info linked at the beginning is clearly beneficial before continuing any discussion  |
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Post by CHILLI on Feb 14, 2017 17:02:03 GMT
<snip>...Not something that's immediately apparent from looking at the game's code and handling files... Never considered that. That could be the reason why trying to tie the values together has been such a brain teaser to me. Well, this will be a shocker but I admit I was fighting an uphill battle and expected to lose; however, I am interested where this discussion will go (excluding my stupid argument). Me responding to this stuff will be beating a dead horse to the point where it's a pile of mush. Still fun to talk about tho. The reason I started looking into this stuff to begin with was because GTA San Andreas' wheel options were purely cosmetic, which disappointed me greatly at the time. So when I saw that V had custom wheel options again I was curious to see if they had done anything with it, seeing as there are performance upgrades. When the game dropped on old-gen back in 2013 I noticed that offroad wheels behaved differently within the first 2 weeks - the 2 weeks before Online opened up to the public. Of course my driving skills sucked so I couldnt put my finger on what it was, but I would keep that in mind until I felt like I knew what the hell I was doing. - Fast forward to when the PC version came out and I could play in an environment I'm familiar with and my testing rapidly took off. Things snowballed and ended up with that document of mine. Not everything is 100% correct, but I feel it's better than having nothing documented at all. If you're one of the people that have mentioned things to test, this is my thanks to you for contributing to figuring this mess out. It's so easy to miss things and my document would be nowhere this size without people pointing out missing info or questioning my results.
I try to follow the scientific method the best I can: make a hypothesis, test a bunch of cars and analyze what was found. Repeat until the predictions appear to be correct in 3/4th's of the cases minimum. It's a large margin of error for certain things, I know, but the game is quirky at times so I feel it's healthier for my sanity this way. Hey, better than nothing, right? 
Oh and as Blade died for our sins mentioned the files exposed to us are just configuration data. All it does is hinting towards dynamic content and mechanics, but what about the remaining 99% of the game's mechanics compiled into the game's executable code? Anyone with even a slither of sanity will know that it's madness to try to reverse engineer that stuff, not gonna go there. As much as I like playing games, and for how much of a nerd I am, calling that overkill is still putting it mildly.
And before I crawl back to the shadows: On-topic: Sports & Tuner wheels are love, sports & tuners are life. And small spoilers for most cars for that balanced weight distribution. And chrome paint. And pink dollar rims. The last two may be lies. What you gonna do? |
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Moto507
Member
Posts: 30
Registered on: July 2016
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Post by Moto507 on Feb 14, 2017 23:30:18 GMT
Zentorno
-Stock Transmission
-All other performance upgrades maxed out.
It may have changed in the last year, but my first 3 gears are faster with a stock transmission than a racing transmission. I tested it with my friend who had an identical zentorno with max everything. But that was at least a year ago.
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mrboxman1
Member
PSN: mrboxman1
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PSN ID: mrboxman1
Social Club: THE-GREAT-MAMU
Discord: Boxman#9845
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Post by mrboxman1 on Feb 14, 2017 23:43:23 GMT
Zentorno -Stock Transmission -All other performance upgrades maxed out. It may have changed in the last year, but my first 3 gears are faster with a stock transmission than a racing transmission. I tested it with my friend who had an identical zentorno with max everything. But that was at least a year ago. This wont work, you will max out early, and when shortshifting going through the gears in the zentrono isnt really a problem. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Registered on: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 9:08:34 GMT
And small spoilers for most cars for that balanced weight distribution. And chrome paint. And pink dollar rims. I fucking knew it!!! |
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Moto507
Member
Posts: 30
Registered on: July 2016
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Post by Moto507 on Feb 15, 2017 14:57:09 GMT
Zentorno -Stock Transmission -All other performance upgrades maxed out. It may have changed in the last year, but my first 3 gears are faster with a stock transmission than a racing transmission. I tested it with my friend who had an identical zentorno with max everything. But that was at least a year ago. This wont work, you will max out early, and when shortshifting going through the gears in the zentrono isnt really a problem. It accelerated quicker on short lengths, but took longer to get to top speed. It had me under the impression that adjusting the transmission didn't affect acceleration so much as it just affected the gear ratio(which is partially true). I'm still kind of new to the intricacies, but on short circuits, it pulled on other zentornos,(but this was way back when everyone and their mother raced with a zentorno.) On very tight short tracks, it pulled on my buddy's turismo, so I never second guessed it. |
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TheEntraP3
Member
AH FRICK! I crashed...
Posts: 60
Registered on: December 2016
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Post by TheEntraP3 on Feb 15, 2017 16:37:05 GMT
Never considered that. That could be the reason why trying to tie the values together has been such a brain teaser to me. Well, this will be a shocker but I admit I was fighting an uphill battle and expected to lose; however, I am interested where this discussion will go (excluding my stupid argument). Me responding to this stuff will be beating a dead horse to the point where it's a pile of mush. Still fun to talk about tho. The reason I started looking into this stuff to begin with was because GTA San Andreas' wheel options were purely cosmetic, which disappointed me greatly at the time. So when I saw that V had custom wheel options again I was curious to see if they had done anything with it, seeing as there are performance upgrades. When the game dropped on old-gen back in 2013 I noticed that offroad wheels behaved differently within the first 2 weeks - the 2 weeks before Online opened up to the public. Of course my driving skills sucked so I couldnt put my finger on what it was, but I would keep that in mind until I felt like I knew what the hell I was doing. - Fast forward to when the PC version came out and I could play in an environment I'm familiar with and my testing rapidly took off. Things snowballed and ended up with that document of mine. Not everything is 100% correct, but I feel it's better than having nothing documented at all. If you're one of the people that have mentioned things to test, this is my thanks to you for contributing to figuring this mess out. It's so easy to miss things and my document would be nowhere this size without people pointing out missing info or questioning my results.
I try to follow the scientific method the best I can: make a hypothesis, test a bunch of cars and analyze what was found. Repeat until the predictions appear to be correct in 3/4th's of the cases minimum. It's a large margin of error for certain things, I know, but the game is quirky at times so I feel it's healthier for my sanity this way. Hey, better than nothing, right?
Oh and as Blade died for our sins mentioned the files exposed to us are just configuration data. All it does is hinting towards dynamic content and mechanics, but what about the remaining 99% of the game's mechanics compiled into the game's executable code? Anyone with even a slither of sanity will know that it's madness to try to reverse engineer that stuff, not gonna go there. As much as I like playing games, and for how much of a nerd I am, calling that overkill is still putting it mildly.
And before I crawl back to the shadows: On-topic: Sports & Tuner wheels are love, sports & tuners are life. And small spoilers for most cars for that balanced weight distribution. And chrome paint. And pink dollar rims. The last two may be lies. What you gonna do? God, Chilli you're fucking awesome. I forgot about your document but will definitely give it a read. |
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Post by weirdtwitter on Feb 16, 2017 11:53:33 GMT
CHILLI thanks for blessing a thread I started with a great post. Fanboy of yours. Respect mate.
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yolorush
Member
Posts: 13
Registered on: February 2017
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Post by yolorush on Feb 19, 2017 19:45:23 GMT
Never thought that GTA could be so complicated. Tried that setup and beat my best time on Stunt H200 by 2 seconds. Car isn't any more so slippy in the first corner and overall it's more stable. Used the competitive suspension also. Previous setup was everything maxed out and high-end wheels. Saw in one other thread that neons affect the handling too. Gonna try it and tell you the results  |
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