|
Post by NicotheRider on Jun 1, 2017 3:11:39 GMT
It's the same car being used though so this is a false equivalency. There is no difference in performance, it is all preference.As Baron said, more things go into racing than lap times. Being able to do well with all the tools available to everyone is the mark of a good racing driver, not neutering everyone else to lower the skill ceiling. If there's no difference in performance, why are we discussing this? There is a difference in performance, but it's not in a directly measurable way like a bonus to acceleration or traction, but in how a driver is able to handle a car. It's an indirect difference in performance, but it's still a difference. Well, you started to compare cars all of a sudden...which is quite confusing, at least to me.
|
|
bladecruiser
Member
Posts: 1,287
Registered on: June 2015
Social Club: BladeCruiser
|
Post by bladecruiser on Jun 1, 2017 3:15:49 GMT
If there's no difference in performance, why are we discussing this? There is a difference in performance, but it's not in a directly measurable way like a bonus to acceleration or traction, but in how a driver is able to handle a car. It's an indirect difference in performance, but it's still a difference. Well, you started to compare cars all of a sudden...which is quite confusing, at least to me. If you tell me what you're confused about, I'd be glad to do my best to explain my thoughts on it.
|
|
|
Post by thedelgadic1 on Jun 1, 2017 3:17:20 GMT
IMO, there's is two weeks in between each race. If you can't find an hour to set up your car to your preferences, maybe you shouldent be participating at all. As baron said, if you make it to where there is only one avalible spec to customize your car to, the people with a lot of time to practice will still have a lot of time to practice and the people with a limited amount of time will still only have a limited time to practice. But now, the cars aren't tuned to someone's preference, and over a 90 minute race, that can get annoying quickly. Just my two cents tho. In other topics, what would you guys want the car selection to be?
|
|
|
Post by Banter on Jun 1, 2017 3:20:55 GMT
It's the same car being used though so this is a false equivalency. There is no difference in performance, it is all preference.As Baron said, more things go into racing than lap times. Being able to do well with all the tools available to everyone is the mark of a good racing driver, not neutering everyone else to lower the skill ceiling. If there's no difference in performance, why are we discussing this? There is a difference in performance, but it's not in a directly measurable way like a bonus to acceleration or traction, but in how a driver is able to handle a car. It's an indirect difference in performance, but it's still a difference. The crux of the issue is people don't want others to have a perceived advantage. Cars with different body mods can achieve identical laptimes, ergo there is no material difference in perfomance. Different drivers with cars modified in different ways can be and are on the same pace in 99.9% of cases, TCC being the only real exception that amounts to something more than placebo. The finer elements of handling are, and always will be personal preference, there is not one best setup for a car. If participants can't be bothered to research the matter on their head be it. It's lowering the skill ceiling with the justification being ignorance or laziness, which frankly isn't a good enough justification.
|
|
|
Post by NicotheRider on Jun 1, 2017 3:24:10 GMT
Well, you started to compare cars all of a sudden...which is quite confusing, at least to me. If you tell me what you're confused about, I'd be glad to do my best to explain my thoughts on it. When you were saying that wheels provide bonuses to some cars but not to others. I am aware of that. But how is that of relevance when everyone in GT1 for example is driving the same car anyway?
|
|
bladecruiser
Member
Posts: 1,287
Registered on: June 2015
Social Club: BladeCruiser
|
Post by bladecruiser on Jun 1, 2017 3:35:15 GMT
If you tell me what you're confused about, I'd be glad to do my best to explain my thoughts on it. When you were saying that wheels provide bonuses to some cars but not to others. I am aware of that. But how is that of relevance when everyone in GT1 for example is driving the same car anyway? Certain wheels provide other smaller benefits over just "off roads make bumps a non-issue on TCC cars". Such as Rally Master wheels making cars easier to regain control over after they start to step out, or Countersteers doing what the name suggests and gives the car a bit more room for error before it would otherwise step out, or a dozen other options such as some wheels making the car's braking bias change slightly from the front to the back or giving slightly more anti-roll to the body when under extreme turning. Instead of comparing wheels, I was comparing a commonly suggested "easy to drive" super car to one that is the exact opposite, a god damn handful on the best of days. Nero Custom vs X80. The Nero Custom is much easier to drive, in any given setup, than an X80 is, in any given setup.
|
|
|
Post by NicotheRider on Jun 1, 2017 4:06:44 GMT
When you were saying that wheels provide bonuses to some cars but not to others. I am aware of that. But how is that of relevance when everyone in GT1 for example is driving the same car anyway? Certain wheels provide other smaller benefits over just "off roads make bumps a non-issue on TCC cars". Such as Rally Master wheels making cars easier to regain control over after they start to step out, or Countersteers doing what the name suggests and gives the car a bit more room for error before it would otherwise step out, or a dozen other options such as some wheels making the car's braking bias change slightly from the front to the back or giving slightly more anti-roll to the body when under extreme turning. Instead of comparing wheels, I was comparing a commonly suggested "easy to drive" super car to one that is the exact opposite, a god damn handful on the best of days. Nero Custom vs X80. The Nero Custom is much easier to drive, in any given setup, than an X80 is, in any given setup. First of all, thank you for trying to explain it. Leaving the car comparison aside now...yes, certain wheels provide different bonuses! So, if I prefer Rally Masters for example (which I do lol) and someone else in my GT prefers Slideways and the next person in our GT prefers Drag SPL (Muscle) while the fourth person prefers Lowrider wheels. Why would you rather restrict us to a certain wheel type, for example Cosmos (Tuner), which no one of us likes/gets on with instead of letting us use our preferred choices for each car? People tend to do better with stuff they like (be it performance wise or in terms of visuals) even if it is just a difference in feeling while driving and not an actual performance increase. To me personally, a good feeling alone when driving is essential for my consistency, ngl about that. I may be stubborn at this topic.....I am stubborn tbh but also somewhat reasonable I hope .....but I really don't understand why someone would actively force people into using certain things knowing that it would very likely prevent them from doing their absolute best.
|
|
|
Post by Treza430 on Jun 1, 2017 4:07:55 GMT
IMO, there's is two weeks in between each race. If you can't find an hour to set up your car to your preferences, maybe you shouldent be participating at all. As baron said, if you make it to where there is only one avalible spec to customize your car to, the people with a lot of time to practice will still have a lot of time to practice and the people with a limited amount of time will still only have a limited time to practice. But now, the cars aren't tuned to someone's preference, and over a 90 minute race, that can get annoying quickly. Just my two cents tho. In other topics, what would you guys want the car selection to be? For Supers RC GT1 : RE-7B GT2 : Tyrus GT3 : Sultan RS
|
|
bladecruiser
Member
Posts: 1,287
Registered on: June 2015
Social Club: BladeCruiser
|
Post by bladecruiser on Jun 1, 2017 4:35:49 GMT
First of all, thank you for trying to explain it. Leaving the car comparison aside now...yes, certain wheels provide different bonuses! So, if I prefer Rally Masters for example (which I do lol) and someone else in my GT prefers Slideways and the next person in our GT prefers Drag SPL (Muscle) while the fourth person prefers Lowrider wheels. Why would you rather restrict us to a certain wheel type, for example Cosmos (Tuner), which no one of us likes/gets on with instead of letting us use our preferred choices for each car? People tend to do better with stuff they like (be it performance wise or in terms of visuals) even if it is just a difference in feeling while driving and not an actual performance increase. To me personally, a good feeling alone when driving is essential for my consistency, ngl about that. I may be stubborn at this topic.....I am stubborn tbh but also somewhat reasonable I hope .....but I really don't understand why someone would actively force people into using certain things knowing that it would very likely prevent them from doing their absolute best. My reasoning is that I think of MCEC not so much as a normal racing event, but The Big Racing Event. This gives it a different feel, a different theme, to me, that I think benefits from drawing out a driver's skill and minimizing every other aspect that might change the outcome of a race. In this case, a car setup will definitely change the balance one way or another, as much as a completely different car choice in some classes. Other events, sure, I enjoy the aspect of picking a car to use (example Touring Cars, with multiple car choices all balanced by the main performance mods being restricted to keep the cars on pace over the course of the racing calendar) or coming up with a setup that I feel confident in driving (such as a Futo event, where body mods and wheel choice can mean the difference between sliding around every turn or barely hanging on and nailing the apex), and that kind of event has a whole different feel to it for me. It's more on me trying to draw out the car's potential, and then trying to wrangle that car into a good showing. In that case, it's more about the cars instead of focusing on the drivers. The previous season of MCEC has made me feel this way towards the event. The wheel restrictions weren't for aesthetic purposes, because the wheels didn't really look good on any of the vehicle choices, but were more in place to keep people from using offroads or other options to gain an advantage. There were a few body mod restrictions made for visual reasons, like any mod with "race" or "racing" in the name had to be used to give the car more of a theme of participating in a racing situation. Another restriction was the Bobcat thing where you had to find one with the bed cover on it. I'm not sure if there was any difference in performance, but it sure changed the look and feel of the whole class forcing people to use that variant instead of one of the other ones. The theme, the feel, of an event is just as important, in my opinion, as any other aspect of it. Seeing a line of Massacro racecars all lined up with the massive GT style spoiler on the back end, with the carbon splitter and other racing bits over the whole car gives a very different feeling to seeing a mishmash of Massacro racecars with all different spoilers, some with stock suspension, some slammed to the ground, god forbid one even using Dollar Sign rims. I feel the loss in customizing your personal vehicle to be exactly the way you like to drive it is an acceptable trade off for the benefit to the theme and feel of the event of having identical cars all racing around together.
|
|
|
Post by thedelgadic1 on Jun 1, 2017 5:02:48 GMT
IMO, there's is two weeks in between each race. If you can't find an hour to set up your car to your preferences, maybe you shouldent be participating at all. As baron said, if you make it to where there is only one avalible spec to customize your car to, the people with a lot of time to practice will still have a lot of time to practice and the people with a limited amount of time will still only have a limited time to practice. But now, the cars aren't tuned to someone's preference, and over a 90 minute race, that can get annoying quickly. Just my two cents tho. In other topics, what would you guys want the car selection to be? For Supers RC GT1 : RE-7B GT2 : Tyrus GT3 : Sultan RS i had a similar list in mind, but instead of the tyrus i was thinking Itali GTB.
|
|
Mace
Member
Going slow & steady doesn't win you the race unfortunately
Posts: 843
Registered on: December 2014
PSN ID: Massacre-Mace
Steam: MaceMedia
Social Club: MaceMedia
Discord: MaceMedia#3847
|
Post by Mace on Jun 1, 2017 5:29:09 GMT
essays for days
|
|
|
Post by endersai on Jun 1, 2017 5:42:50 GMT
If you translate "covfefe" from its Eastern European roots into English, you get "MCEC".
|
|
|
Post by xInfamousRYANx on Jun 1, 2017 6:18:22 GMT
My reasoning is that I think of MCEC not so much as a normal racing event, but The Big Racing Event. This gives it a different feel, a different theme, to me, that I think benefits from drawing out a driver's skill and minimizing every other aspect that might change the outcome of a race. In this case, a car setup will definitely change the balance one way or another, The bolded part is where the argument against restricted body mods comes in. Wheels im fine with body parts no. You want it to be pure and balanced but if everyone cannot use a setup they prefer the car may feel bad to them placebo or not and therefore do worse whereas if the locked mods haopen to fall along a certain few drivers' preferences they will feel good driving the car while others wont and likely do better because they FEEL better. I think it is more balanced if everyone gets to setup thier car in a certain way so that it works well for them then every driver is theoretically driving at his peak because the car is set up to suit them instead of fighting it. You may say "well they have weeks to practice so git gud at the locked setup" but the truth is someone truly comfortable with that locked setup because its how they run the car anyways and someone who has to adapt are never going to be on the same level assuming they are of equal skill.
|
|
BloodySquirrels
Member
Posts: 33
Registered on: February 2017
PSN ID: BloodySquirrels
Social Club: BloodySquirrels
Discord: BloodySquirrels#3329
|
Post by BloodySquirrels on Jun 1, 2017 7:05:05 GMT
What a bunch of moaning ninnies! Y'all going to complain anyway - lock the setup so at least you're all complaining about the same thing!
|
|
|
Post by cameronman1329 on Jun 1, 2017 7:15:30 GMT
It's been less than 24 hours since this thread was made. People are already complaining about rules of an event people they join voluntarily. You have your opinions, no need to post 4 pages on it. Say it once and leave it there Broughy right now
|
|