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Post by flaminggun7 on Jun 1, 2017 12:12:56 GMT
Monitoring is not completely impossible, but it would be a massive pain in the ass for the host. In the race lobby (not pre-lobby, as someone already mentioned, someone can take a car to a prelobby but use a near identical one but different car in the race lobby) each car would have to be checked, and if someone forgets or just breaks the rules, issues will be had. Some things are also incredibly hard to check, like invisible neons, suspension height, some bumper options etc. Recently the FIA took a new approach when it comes to racing incidents in F1. When they are 50/50 about giving a penalty or not giving a penalty, then don't give a penalty. I feel like the same approach could be taken here with the setup debate. If you can add a rule or not add a rule, then don't. The best racers will still win whether setups are there or not, but with setups I feel like many of us will enjoy driving cars more, especially those that we don't like.
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Post by Banter on Jun 1, 2017 12:13:01 GMT
On set-ups, perhaps instead of fully restricting it or leaving it totally open, you could have a small selection of wheels to make your car more to your liking. I.e, Restrictions: *bunch of restrictions*, Your choice of: Fujiwara (tuner), Rally Masters (tuner), Saisoku (tuner). You could expand this further to body mods etc for more flexibility, but (to the best of my knowledge, correct me if wrong) wheels seem to be the biggest difference on average, and making multiple full setups would be pretty tedious for organisers. This gives you options to make a car more tolerable, but doesn't force you to spend hours perfecting and tinkering with a set-up to be competitive. Best of both worlds? Maybe?  That's the thing though... These setups don't take hours to make, nor do they provide any real competitive edge. People keep seeming to ignore this point, it really doesn't make a difference and is largely placebo. |
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Post by Banter on Jun 1, 2017 12:15:30 GMT
Monitoring is not completely impossible, but it would be a massive pain in the ass for the host. In the race lobby (not pre-lobby, as someone already mentioned, someone can take a car to a prelobby but use a near identical one but different car in the race lobby) each car would have to be checked, and if someone forgets or just breaks the rules, issues will be had. Some things are also incredibly hard to check, like invisible neons, suspension height, some bumper options etc. Recently the FIA took a new approach when it comes to racing incidents in F1. When they are 50/50 about giving a penalty or not giving a penalty, then don't give a penalty. I feel like the same approach could be taken here with the setup debate. If you can add a rule or not add a rule, then don't. The best racers will still win whether setups are there or not, but with setups I feel like many of us will enjoy driving cars more, especially those that we don't like. I agree. This is largely a comfort/quality of life issue, not one of being competitive. The best drivers will be the best regardless, just let us have cars that feel a bit nicer even if it's just in our heads, it makes no odds to anyone else. |
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Post by Daleks (@darkalex45) on Jun 1, 2017 12:16:20 GMT
Staggered playlists is a thing here too. Thing is also, yes you might own a lot of cars, but did you bother trying to give it a good setup? Also the people on slack are known to have invested too much time in GTA lul. Then there is me who hosts an entire championship based off staggered starts, hotlaping cars to get laptimes, kinda requires setups, even though I sell them all, I still get others to tell me what can improve on my setup to accomodate my skill level to get the max potential out of the car. We all know you are a hard working and insane man. Lots of respect, the idea of having to test so many cars on a track to find out if the car and/or track will fit well in your championship is already so much lol. Atleast you have the enjoyement of driving a lot of different cars on a lot of different tracks. |
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Post by MindlessRiff on Jun 1, 2017 12:22:47 GMT
On set-ups, perhaps instead of fully restricting it or leaving it totally open, you could have a small selection of wheels to make your car more to your liking. I.e, Restrictions: *bunch of restrictions*, Your choice of: Fujiwara (tuner), Rally Masters (tuner), Saisoku (tuner). You could expand this further to body mods etc for more flexibility, but (to the best of my knowledge, correct me if wrong) wheels seem to be the biggest difference on average, and making multiple full setups would be pretty tedious for organisers. This gives you options to make a car more tolerable, but doesn't force you to spend hours perfecting and tinkering with a set-up to be competitive. Best of both worlds? Maybe? That's the thing though... These setups don't take hours to make, nor do they provide any real competitive edge. People keep seeming to ignore this point, it really doesn't make a difference and is largely placebo. Sure, hours is an exaggeration, but I think this would be a fine quality of life improvement, keep focus on the actual race, and allow drivers to have at least some choice. (For the record, I do find driving in and out of LSC and reloading the job super tedious) Edit: and if its mostly placebo, then surely we don't need a ton of options if only a few matter. |
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Post by Brady on Jun 1, 2017 12:24:19 GMT
Then there is me who hosts an entire championship based off staggered starts, hotlaping cars to get laptimes, kinda requires setups, even though I sell them all, I still get others to tell me what can improve on my setup to accomodate my skill level to get the max potential out of the car. We all know you are a hard working and insane man. Lots of respect, the idea of having to test so many cars on a track to find out if the car and/or track will fit well in your championship is already so much lol. Atleast you have the enjoyement of driving a lot of different cars on a lot of different tracks. Who ever said I enjoyed it? lel |
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Post by Daleks (@darkalex45) on Jun 1, 2017 12:29:11 GMT
I agree with flaminggun7 though. If we can't decide and if its a 50/50, let's do nothing about it, or perhaps try something that is the best of both worlds, like mindlessriff tried. Blade made the threat of using dollar rims every race though so I am very afraid. |
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Post by Brady on Jun 1, 2017 12:30:06 GMT
I agree with flaminggun7 though. If we can't decide and if its a 50/50, let's do nothing about it, or perhaps try something that is the best of both worlds, like mindlessriff tried. Blade made the threat of using dollar rims every race though so I am very afraid. Dollar rims are bae |
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Post by NicotheRider on Jun 1, 2017 12:33:31 GMT
Someone might be able to decide better with all the options written like this in a little summary. Blue plus is positive, purple division is neutral, red minus is negative.
Tell me what I should add in this. Proposal: Force strict customization optionsSkillwise:+More fair, equal cars
+More focus on racing
+Rewards being adaptable-Luck based at times, someone might get their preferred setup and others won't.
-Some might not be able give out their full potential with the carDriver experience:
+More time on practicing the track instead of driving to LSC and starting up the job
-Might hate driving the car without his preferred setup
-Less customization freedom for cosmetic reasons
Time:+Less time used+Extra time can be used for more race practice÷Driver with a setup he doesn't like might need more time for practice. However, that time is gained from not customizing.Viewer experience:+Focus on how drivers adapt to their conditions and the racing itself, instead of the car÷More professional looking, less variety-Less unique driving styles (honestly, people will probably keep their driving style and just try it with the setup)Hosting:
÷Deciding which setup to force (Just pick the last item at every option/take time giving a fun setup)-Impossible to monitor
Overall:+Equal playing field÷The cars might look better if they look the same cosmetic wise, but they might also be boring.-Sacrifice drivers comfort and freedom
I feel like this is unfinished but I can't think of anything else. Feels like playing a paradox game...
My opinion alert:
I don't care, I'm for both sides. I'd prefer to force it because I cannot spend so much time to find a good setup. I'm also sligtly perfectionistic and It feels very painful trying to find the absolute right setup. I have choice problems and things like this customizing makes me frustrated like hell because tiny things can annoy the shit out of me. Its why I don't bother doing it, or do it in a very 'Eh that'll do I can't bother' attitude.
It is a nice list you made there. In response to that: Skillwise: Equal cars? Yes. More fair? Subjective I'd say. One of the biggest cons to me: People don't necessarily reach their maximum potential if they are forced into a setup...but isn't letting everyone compete against each other at their best and create some good racing the main aspect of a championship? Driver Experience + Time: Tbh, it takes a minute or two to drive to LSC and change the stuff that didn't work at all + a minute to host and launch the job again. Finding a decent setup in general takes maybe 1-2 hours and is done within the usual practice laps you'd expect a driver to do. If people can't/don't want to put in that amount of time over TWO weeks, then I wonder why they even sign up as a full time driver. Either they have no time at all or they aren't fully committed then imo. Overall: Sacrificing drivers freedom and comfort. Basically restricting some of a drivers potential - just a no to me.^^ |
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nintendocore666
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Host of Formula-E and The Hunger Games [PS4]
Posts: 440 
Registered on: August 2016
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Post by nintendocore666 on Jun 1, 2017 12:33:58 GMT
what most people don't see is that testing a setup on the track is also practice. If you try 3 different setups, 5 laps each, you get 15 laps of practice. Not all of them with your final setup but still it's practice. So it's not exactly wasting time (except for going to LSC two or three times)
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Tsupernami
Member
Posts: 1,414
Registered on: November 2015
Steam: Tsupernami
Social Club: Tsupernami
Discord: Tsupernami#6025
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Post by Tsupernami on Jun 1, 2017 12:39:08 GMT
Wow I fucked up the maths there big time. In that case it's clearly not as drastic. I swear to god if I lose the championship by 9 seconds I'm blaming you. As for sapping the fun out of it Banter, I think you're completely wrong. Modifying my car is the most boring thing I can thing of in gta. So the rest of us should be restricted because it's boring to some people? Oh don't get emotional over it. You stated the exact opposite point, that it's more fun to do this. I can simply reword your point into your original statement and it had the same effect. This being - "so the rest of us should suffer to those who can edit their cars because it's more fun for some people?" |
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Post by Banter on Jun 1, 2017 12:44:19 GMT
So the rest of us should be restricted because it's boring to some people? Oh don't get emotional over it. You stated the exact opposite point, that it's more fun to do this. I can simply reword your point into your original statement and it had the same effect. This being - "so the rest of us should suffer to those who can edit their cars because it's more fun for some people?" I'm not getting emotional, it's just terrible justification for unnecessary regulation. No one else is affected in the slightest by my choice of spoiler, splitter, skirts etc. Don't take away other peoples choice because you don't like it or can't be bothered, it's rather petulant. |
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Post by Shadyfruit on Jun 1, 2017 12:53:10 GMT
Would be awesome to participate in another MCEC!  |
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Post by Daleks (@darkalex45) on Jun 1, 2017 12:54:57 GMT
It is a nice list you made there. In response to that: Skillwise: Equal cars? Yes. More fair? Subjective I'd say. One of the biggest cons to me: People don't necessarily reach their maximum potential if they are forced into a setup...but isn't letting everyone compete against each other at their best and create some good racing the main aspect of a championship? Driver Experience + Time: Tbh, it takes a minute or two to drive to LSC and change the stuff that didn't work at all + a minute to host and launch the job again. Finding a decent setup in general takes maybe 1-2 hours and is done within the usual practice laps you'd expect a driver to do. If people can't/don't want to put in that amount of time over TWO weeks, then I wonder why they even sign up as a full time driver. Either they have no time at all or they aren't fully committed then imo. Overall: Sacrificing drivers freedom and comfort. Basically restricting some of a drivers potential - just a no to me.^^ Fair is a weird word here to use, so its better I just delete it. I meant fair as in everyone has the same car. But its also unfair because some got lucky. I'll remove it. I already wrote that drivers might not reach their fullest potential with the car. However, that is with the car itself. For the driver himself, he can still reach the maximum potential, but its different for every car/setup. A different setup can basically be a different car. Its enough for me to put it as a negative in skillwise, but not big enough/not detailed enough to put it as overall imo. As for time, 2 hours is for some people really precious D: Not much for me, but for others a lot. As for already doing practice laps... it depends. A different setup can basically make it a different car sometimes. Yes, you get to know the track, but now you have to get consistent and get good lap times on it. Then again 2 hours in two weeks ain't much, but I guess its just a huge annoyance, idk, I'm neutral anyway lul. What I find hilarious that this could turn out to be the most insignificant thing to ever discuss for so much about. Does anyone have other suggestions? xD |
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Post by aichiyota on Jun 1, 2017 12:57:27 GMT
Whats wrong with leaving the customizations to the individual?
Everybody start with the same base...The stock car and the same customizations available.
If you want to use other wheels because u think they feel better suited to your driving style u should be allowed to do so.
Everybody else could pick them as well if they think they work better or give u an advantage.
Setup is a big part of almost every IRL form of motorsport and is equal important than being a good driver.
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