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Post by KoBo_043 on Jul 3, 2015 12:57:12 GMT
(quoted from Broughy1322 in The 'new' racing guidelines.) I don't really understand this. Suppose I get invited to a race I don't know, and while racing discover I hate the track, or the car. I HAVE to keep racing? And what if I get invited to a playlist (not an event-playlist but a regular one) an can't finish it due to time constraints? Is that considered a ragequit? There have been plenty occasions where I pulled over in a safe place if I didn't like the track or car in a particular race in a playlist. Just past tuesday I was in V12's Kalahari event. I was last, with a gap of over 45 seconds at one point. Getting a little frustrated with the track and the car, so I decided to pull over in a safe spot, smoke a cigarette and get myself together again for the next race. At least by pulling over I wasn't ruining anybody's race by obstructing them. And how would you possibly know for sure somebody ragequits (unless they shout: "I'M QUITING %$@#@#$!!!!") Could very well be he DC'ed or something. I understand the fact a sore loser can be annoying, but you can't expect people to continue doing something they're not enjoying. I'd take a ragequiter over trolling when annoyed anytime.
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Post by Broughy1322 on Jul 3, 2015 13:11:52 GMT
(quoted from Broughy1322 in The 'new' racing guidelines.) I don't really understand this. Suppose I get invited to a race I don't know, and while racing discover I hate the track, or the car. I HAVE to keep racing? And what if I get invited to a playlist (not an event-playlist but a regular one) an can't finish it due to time constraints? Is that considered a ragequit? There have been plenty occasions where I pulled over in a safe place if I didn't like the track or car in a particular race in a playlist. Just past tuesday I was in V12's Kalahari event. I was last, with a gap of over 45 seconds at one point. Getting a little frustrated with the track and the car, so I decided to pull over in a safe spot, smoke a cigarette and get myself together again for the next race. At least by pulling over I wasn't ruining anybody's race by obstructing them. And how would you possibly know for sure somebody ragequits (unless they shout: "I'M QUITING %$@#@#$!!!!") Could very well be he DC'ed or something. I understand the fact a sore loser can be annoying, but you can't expect people to continue doing something they're not enjoying. I'd take a ragequiter over trolling when annoyed anytime. It's more a guard against people who constantly do it. It's especially annoying if you don't finish a race when an event or race is full and someone else could have had the slot, but in general every once in a while it's not a problem. But there have been times where playlists and races have been started and people have left mid way through despite knowing what was coming. That's not fair on the organiser. Again though every now and then it's fine, just constantly doing it would be a problem.
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method0ne
Member
Posts: 166
Registered on: June 2015
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Post by method0ne on Jul 3, 2015 13:44:07 GMT
Since it seems Broughy1322 is here, this point may need rewording/clarifying. As I understand it, you're saying that basically if you aren't 100% alongside someone on the outside it's fair game for them to run you wide/off course, which, again, as I understand it also contravenes the first guideline, emphasis is mine; Now since a lot of the guidelines/etiquette seem to be derived from the F1 rules after a fashion, it would seem that this one isn't, last time I watched F1 if a driver had half a car length even on the outside then they had to be given enough space so as to not cause an accident, granted what constitutes "enough" was somewhat open to interpretation by the drivers, but if an avoidable accident was caused then punishments in the form of drive-through penalties were issued. The main reason I bring this up is that often due to desync/lag issues a driver may appear further behind or ahead of where they actually are, if I have a fast line round the outside of someone and on their screen I wasn't alongside (whereas on mine I was) then you're giving them free reign to run me off without reprecussion. This could also open up yet another opportunity for abuse in that if someone overtakes up the inside, as soon as their nose is ahead, this ruling basically allows them to force the driver on the outside off-track and guarantee that they keep the position.
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Post by Broughy1322 on Jul 3, 2015 13:54:21 GMT
Since it seems Broughy1322 is here, this point may need rewording/clarifying. As I understand it, you're saying that basically if you aren't 100% alongside someone on the outside it's fair game for them to run you wide/off course, which, again, as I understand it also contravenes the first guideline, emphasis is mine; Now since a lot of the guidelines/etiquette seem to be derived from the F1 rules after a fashion, it would seem that this one isn't, last time I watched F1 if a driver had half a car length even on the outside then they had to be given enough space so as to not cause an accident, granted what constitutes "enough" was somewhat open to interpretation by the drivers, but if an avoidable accident was caused then punishments in the form of drive-through penalties were issued. The main reason I bring this up is that often due to desync/lag issues a driver may appear further behind or ahead of where they actually are, if I have a fast line round the outside of someone and on their screen I wasn't alongside (whereas on mine I was) then you're giving them free reign to run me off without reprecussion. This could also open up yet another opportunity for abuse in that if someone overtakes up the inside, as soon as their nose is ahead, this ruling basically allows them to force the driver on the outside off-track and guarantee that they keep the position. From the Rules of Racing website linked in the racing guidelines: If you stick yourself on the outside of a corner you have no right to that space unless you're level. Lag issues are something else entirely but those are the rules. In normal playlist events I personally would give more space on the outside and expect the same in return. If someone didn't I would note it and not give them the space next time. But in proper serious racing events these are the rules we go by. F1 has the same rule about that. The racing line is king and if you're on the outside you're not on the racing line. This could also open up yet another opportunity for abuse in that if someone overtakes up the inside, as soon as their nose is ahead, this ruling basically allows them to force the driver on the outside off-track and guarantee that they keep the position.Yep. If you get overtaken and you're slightly behind on corner exit then it's time to back out of it an accept you've lost the position. Unless you're racing against someone who you know will give you space, in which case it becomes a judgement call.
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method0ne
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Posts: 166
Registered on: June 2015
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Post by method0ne on Jul 3, 2015 14:45:44 GMT
Seems I may need to brush up on some of those F1 regs.
The desync/lag position is still somewhat contentious though, if I'm alongside or even ahead on my screen yet not on the other persons, where would I stand if I got run off?
Even something as simple as saying that the driver being overtaken has priority can be abused since if someone doesn't want to concede the position all they have to say is that they were ahead on their screen and there's nothing anyone could do about it.
As theoretical as the above may sound, given the P2P nature of GTA:O and the netcode issues that arise from it, it's entirely probable that it will happen and it will inevitably cause friction when it does.
I don't want to appear all doom and gloom here, like Broughy I'll happily leave room through the corners, if you think you can get round me then by all means give it your best, hell I've often just conceded a position in exchange for following the lines of a faster driver in an effort to better my track knowledge, I just like to know exactly where I stand.
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dondeef
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Racing on P.C., employed as business intelligence analyst, 26 y.o.
Posts: 90
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Post by dondeef on Jul 8, 2015 12:30:58 GMT
So.. What happens if I'm driving with my front wheel level with someone's back wheel on a straight and the person in front of me moves into me while I keep going straight causing me to pit him? Had this a couple of times and I waited for the other person but wasn't sure if it was my fault or not. For sake of argument say neither driver has over-speed.
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Post by Jackimo on Jul 8, 2015 12:36:33 GMT
So.. What happens if I'm driving with my front wheel level with someone's back wheel on a straight and the person in front of me moves into me while I keep going straight causing me to pit him? Had this a couple of times and I waited for the other person but wasn't sure if it was my fault or not. For sake of argument say neither driver has over-speed. If you weren't coming up to a turn, that sounds to me like he messed up and wasn't aware of where his car was in relation to yours. His fault. If you were coming up to a turn, he had claim to the apex and you should have pulled out. Your fault.
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Post by inspectormelvin on Nov 21, 2015 15:51:05 GMT
One thing confusing me atm is the way bump boosting can affect racing lines, and in turn general racing etiquette. The other night, a guy swerved in front of me on a straight, hit the front of my car and span out, and blamed it on me. He argued that he was going for a bump boost, and that therefore it was entirely legitimate, and I should have known about this. As it happens, I didn't as I was unfamiliar with the track, but if I did, then surely by that token I was entitled to go for the boost as well, and he should have been equally wary of me. He had already made one defensive move on the straight, which was fair enough, and so because of this, and my lack of track knowledge, I simply wasn't expecting it. Put more succinctly, I guess my point is, does bump boosting constitute a legitimate racing line in Gta? And if so, how do we marry the rules of Gta physics with real life racing etiquette?
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method0ne
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Posts: 166
Registered on: June 2015
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Post by method0ne on Nov 22, 2015 8:06:10 GMT
What he said, regardless of what he thinks, is entirely false.
If people want to use bumps to gain an advantage, whether it be curbs or natural deformities in the road surface, that's entirely fair, but if those people pull across other vehicles in an attempt to hit a bump and cause accidents because of it then they are squarely to blame. He pulled across your line and by consequence ran into you- you didn't run into him, ergo you are not at fault, the only situation where this would not be the case is if you weren't far enough up the inside going into a turn.
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Post by inspectormelvin on Nov 22, 2015 15:18:33 GMT
Thanks methodone, that was my view on it as well, because of the different physics involved I thought he may have had a point, he was a pretty gifted sophist to make me consider it though. Maybe he's a lawyer :-)
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Hertz
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Winner of Chiliad-Sandy Triathlon
Posts: 580
Registered on: December 2015
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Post by Hertz on Dec 3, 2015 23:23:00 GMT
I'm unfortunately not too clear on how things should be on GTA still. Sometimes I don't know what constitutes a track limit with track being defined by checkpoints rather than some boundary. And it's really hard to tell (for me, anyway) what could be a corner, with many incidents like the Kemmel corner incident on the nice page Broughy linked (I will relink). Also it's very hard to get intent of the other driver unless I know the track. For example, the problematic area entering LSC in Drag Kings. I still wonder when I stop after such incidents, whether the other driver expected me to not stop. And these things are judgement calls, and not knowing these things clear doesn't help either.
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letaros
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Post by letaros on Jun 30, 2016 9:49:02 GMT
I have a question and i think this is the best topic for it. I feel good and confident when the race is non-contact and i finish in top-5 positions against good racers. In contact ones on the other hand i am always afraid of hitting or ruining / stalling other people and i prefer to let them pass me (when i feel too pressured). Its like i am too friendly but that comes from the fact that I HATE when this happens to me and i dont like doint to others what i hate The only way i can finish in top positions in that case is through mistakes from others. And thats because i am not that fast but i am very consistent even in races i dont know. How do you deal with this? By not being extremely friendly? By knowing very good the tracks? Is it skill? Something else? Any suggestions?
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Deleted
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Registered on: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 20:47:34 GMT
This was probably mentioned earlier in the thread, I apologize for not reading it all in case this popped up, but what exactly is meant by "pitting maneuvers"?
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phyxsius
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Posts: 8
Registered on: June 2016
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Post by phyxsius on Jul 5, 2016 12:41:18 GMT
Since we all love F1 rules, when will you impose a rule about 2 wheels on tarmac at all costs, or "road"?
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Post by Multiincoming on Jul 24, 2016 11:05:18 GMT
Since we all love F1 rules, when will you impose a rule about 2 wheels on tarmac at all costs, or "road"? Barriers.
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