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Post by Broughy1322 on May 24, 2014 21:35:32 GMT
3 tenths of a second between best and worst, and a fair few different placings for average times? Yeah... there's no difference in wheel types based on that info.
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Doodle
Member
wait this still exists?
Posts: 457
Registered on: April 2014
PSN ID: doodlemonoply / TRL_doodle
Social Club: doodlemonoply
Discord: Doodle#4061
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Post by Doodle on May 24, 2014 22:17:24 GMT
I only choose my rims based on how good they look anyways.
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valleyeve
Member
Posts: 87
Registered on: April 2014
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Post by valleyeve on May 25, 2014 2:52:38 GMT
3 tenths of a second between best and worst, and a fair few different placings for average times? Yeah... there's no difference in wheel types based on that info. Different placing a due to human error. To prove they made a difference would require a big pool of lap times. With such a small sample it isn't proof. But... That off-road video is pretty thought provoking...
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Post by nfsshadow on May 25, 2014 10:33:05 GMT
3 tenths of a second between best and worst, and a fair few different placings for average times? Yeah... there's no difference in wheel types based on that info. Different placing a due to human error. To prove they made a difference would require a big pool of lap times. With such a small sample it isn't proof. But... That off-road video is pretty thought provoking... i recommend taking a turismo... fully tune it... and run once with and once without offroad tires on LSGP (which is slidy because of all the "jumps")...
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Post by ♛ZeNzI23 on May 25, 2014 13:00:56 GMT
Even if there is no difference, if somebody believes it helps, it will help in their head. Placebo effect.
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valleyeve
Member
Posts: 87
Registered on: April 2014
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Post by valleyeve on May 25, 2014 14:01:25 GMT
Even if there is no difference, if somebody believes it helps, it will help in their head. Placebo effect. That's a fact
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CantDrive55Andy
Member
Stuff and things.
Posts: 764
Registered on: April 2014
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Post by CantDrive55Andy on May 25, 2014 14:10:56 GMT
Even if there is no difference, if somebody believes it helps, it will help in their head. Placebo effect. That's a fact I have to agree with that reasoning (the placebo effect). As Broughy stated beforehand, three tenths of a second isn't that big of a difference. It also won't help you win any races. Finding the racing line in a race and knowing how your vehicle handles will you tremendously. You have to be in tune with your vehicle and improve on your mistakes. Some days are better than others, but it's all about being confident and comfortable in your vehicle. Finally, I think that when you throw on another set of tires, the racer in you is more prone to being more careful during racing to get those good lap times.
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Post by Trowa on May 26, 2014 7:53:24 GMT
That's a fact I have to agree with that reasoning (the placebo effect). As Broughy stated beforehand, three tenths of a second isn't that big of a difference. It also won't help you win any races. Finding the racing line in a race and knowing how your vehicle handles will you tremendously. You have to be in tune with your vehicle and improve on your mistakes. Some days are better than others, but it's all about being confident and comfortable in your vehicle. Finally, I think that when you throw on another set of tires, the racer in you is more prone to being more careful during racing to get those good lap times. 3/10ths of a second matters. I have won and lost tons of races by that margin. To say it doesnt matter just isnt true at all. Will it will impact your placing in every single race? That is an obvious no, which I believe is a lot of peoples reasoning behind saying no it has no impact at all. The FACT is there is more evidence pointing in the direction of making an impact than not. It should also be noted that if adding a spoiler, armour, carbon fiber kits, suspension different wheels, custom tires all make a difference of a few tenths either positive or negative then all the "cosmetic" upgrades with a positive benefit(I think Armour adds weight, slowing down the optimal speed but the positives of no damage outweigh that) combined then we are talking about maybe a full second difference. Not just 3/10ths or however much of an impact they may actually have. Basically, proper testing needs to be done or someone who can access the game code needs to look into it. Sadly, the list of hidden stats we have all seen revolves around the base vehicle stats and sheds no light on any upgrades cosmetic or not. My guess is the best race setup would be something like: Full engine upgrades Carbon everything possible Spoiler Tuner wheels with custom tires No armour (remember this is about speed and this wouldnt be so terrible in a no contact race either)<--Not telling you take your armour off, just stating its probably preventing optimal speed. Suspension: Im really not sure here, this is really dependent on the car imo but I would stay away from race suspension is supers and some sports( bumps and stuff) Avoid cosmetic upgrades that only add weight and have no benefit to the cars drag coefficient ie; roof scoops these are essentially nothing but air conditioning for racecar drivers IRL, they do nothing else but add drag. complete and utterly useless for you sitting in your bedroom
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Post by Trowa on May 26, 2014 8:10:03 GMT
Anyone who thinks 3/10ths of a second donesnt matter I implore you to go watch Shaggy's F1 series. There are enough races decided by that margin in the series alone to prove that it most certainly does matter when you have equally matched players. Shaggy and Picano are within less than a half a car length of each other in at least one race in every single video.
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Post by Broughy1322 on May 26, 2014 10:34:51 GMT
Anyone who thinks 3/10ths of a second donesnt matter I implore you to go watch Shaggy's F1 series. There are enough races decided by that margin in the series alone to prove that it most certainly does matter when you have equally matched players. Shaggy and Picano are within less than a half a car length of each other in at least one race in every single video. And how many times was 3 tenths (or more) lost every time someone made a mistake? Nobody is saying 3 tenths of a second doesn't matter. All I'm saying is that in a test like that, 3 tenths of a second separating 7 different wheel types (and 1 tenth separating the middle 5) doesn't prove anything about their relative performance, especially when there are average results that vary wildly with "best lap" results.
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Post by Trowa on May 26, 2014 11:37:29 GMT
Anyone who thinks 3/10ths of a second donesnt matter I implore you to go watch Shaggy's F1 series. There are enough races decided by that margin in the series alone to prove that it most certainly does matter when you have equally matched players. Shaggy and Picano are within less than a half a car length of each other in at least one race in every single video. And how many times was 3 tenths (or more) lost every time someone made a mistake? Nobody is saying 3 tenths of a second doesn't matter. All I'm saying is that in a test like that, 3 tenths of a second separating 7 different wheel types (and 1 tenth separating the middle 5) doesn't prove anything about their relative performance, especially when there are average results that vary wildly with "best lap" results. There are better ways to test it. If my xbox wasnt broke I would be doing it myself. It pains me that I cant play atm. How I would go about it would be using a straight line test (easily done without a cap card) and a braking test first(cap card needed). If you find no variation at all there I would be shocked but thats my opinion on with how the test would work. For a straight line test make a drag race with a flat straight line. Either airport would be ideal. Hold the trigger the entire time the countdown is going. This is to prevent variation in time based on reaction time. Record your time. If you are getting better grip your acceleration off the line is going to be better and thus give you a better time. For Braking you are going to want to get the car up to top speed. Its very important that you are at top speed bc without a speedometer you have no idea how fast you are going and your speed is going to effect braking distance/time. Again if you are getting better grip you should in theory slow down faster. Id suggest shaggys accel/top speed drag race for his testing videos. Once at top speed you would then brake and see how long it takes the car to come to a complete stop and how far it slides. The capture card comes into play bc you are going to need to start a time from the second the brake lights light up until the car stops. This can only be accurately done if you are looking at the game frame by frame. Cornering im not sure how you can effectively do a test bc of human error being such a factor especially with a controller but these are tests I have laid out the best conditions you can put yourself in to make this test fair. I would also suggest the tests be done on both proper roads and dirt. The best place I can think of for Dirt would probably be the horse track unless someone else knows of a good long straight thats nice and flat to avoid human error. For the race track I would do only do a straighaway for the accel test to avoid human error and for the braking thanks to magic of your cap card you can do one full lap to get up to top speed and just go by the brake lights and the stopping point as in the previous test.
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valleyeve
Member
Posts: 87
Registered on: April 2014
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Post by valleyeve on May 26, 2014 13:11:27 GMT
The different tests may work, but I'm thinking the times would be so close you wouldn't be able to decipher a good list unless you tested each wheel 100 times. For a straight line test or braking, you'd be looking at very small fractions of a second.
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Post by Broughy1322 on May 26, 2014 14:09:02 GMT
And how many times was 3 tenths (or more) lost every time someone made a mistake? Nobody is saying 3 tenths of a second doesn't matter. All I'm saying is that in a test like that, 3 tenths of a second separating 7 different wheel types (and 1 tenth separating the middle 5) doesn't prove anything about their relative performance, especially when there are average results that vary wildly with "best lap" results. There are better ways to test it. If my xbox wasnt broke I would be doing it myself. It pains me that I cant play atm. How I would go about it would be using a straight line test (easily done without a cap card) and a braking test first(cap card needed). If you find no variation at all there I would be shocked but thats my opinion on with how the test would work. For a straight line test make a drag race with a flat straight line. Either airport would be ideal. Hold the trigger the entire time the countdown is going. This is to prevent variation in time based on reaction time. Record your time. If you are getting better grip your acceleration off the line is going to be better and thus give you a better time. For Braking you are going to want to get the car up to top speed. Its very important that you are at top speed bc without a speedometer you have no idea how fast you are going and your speed is going to effect braking distance/time. Again if you are getting better grip you should in theory slow down faster. Id suggest shaggys accel/top speed drag race for his testing videos. Once at top speed you would then brake and see how long it takes the car to come to a complete stop and how far it slides. The capture card comes into play bc you are going to need to start a time from the second the brake lights light up until the car stops. This can only be accurately done if you are looking at the game frame by frame. Cornering im not sure how you can effectively do a test bc of human error being such a factor especially with a controller but these are tests I have laid out the best conditions you can put yourself in to make this test fair. I would also suggest the tests be done on both proper roads and dirt. The best place I can think of for Dirt would probably be the horse track unless someone else knows of a good long straight thats nice and flat to avoid human error. For the race track I would do only do a straighaway for the accel test to avoid human error and for the braking thanks to magic of your cap card you can do one full lap to get up to top speed and just go by the brake lights and the stopping point as in the previous test. Yup, have had the same idea myself and it probably how I'd do it when I get around to it. Might involved the crew so we can get a bigger sample size. Drag race needs to be set such that people only need to hold the right trigger since turning even slightly affects speed. Whilst there would be some variation in times due to how the car spun its wheels at the start, a 30 second drag race would allow for a lot of repeats. My car of choice would also be the futo.
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Post by Trowa on May 26, 2014 15:01:57 GMT
Yup, have had the same idea myself and it probably how I'd do it when I get around to it. Might involved the crew so we can get a bigger sample size. Drag race needs to be set such that people only need to hold the right trigger since turning even slightly affects speed. Whilst there would be some variation in times due to how the car spun its wheels at the start, a 30 second drag race would allow for a lot of repeats. My car of choice would also be the futo. I hadnt considered car choice but agree the Futo would probably be the best choice. If any car is going to show results you would think it would be that one. I wouldnt put the video off too long either. The guy that posted that other video with the terrible test going up hill has over 600K views and only 130K subs because there are only 2 videos on the subject with any significant views. One is about drifting and the other is about off roading. Someone such as yourself who puts so much effort into their videos should be getting those views. Not some guy who went up a hill ten times. Not only do I feel its a video that is in your wheel house. Its a video that over 600K people wanted to see. With the help of the crew liking the video and a shoutout from shaggy I think you would be right next to that video in the search feed. Maybe you wont get 600K views but its the type of video thats going to draw in new subs and you deserve them!
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Post by rdt33 on May 26, 2014 15:43:13 GMT
Is there anything in the game code that suggests that different tires make a difference?
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