averageloz
Member
Average4Lyfe.
Posts: 660 
Registered on: December 2014
|
Post by averageloz on Apr 14, 2015 15:31:23 GMT
Track Builders Tips & Tricks!
A lot of people frequently ask what it is that makes a great track, so I figured we should have a place for all the information stored in our collective mind to help people improve!
I've cherry picked a few comments from other threads to get going!
*DISCLAIMER*
Nearly all the information you see here is subject to opinion and is limited to the boundaries set by the game. A track does not have to have all or any of these things to be great/fun, this is merely a guide to help feed your creativity and help you improve your own creations.
General Tips & Tricks
- Racing other peoples tracks will help you notice things to help improve your own.
- Track Theme is a big one for a lot of people so have a clear aim about what your making when you set out. Are you making a Street Racing Track, a Rally Track? Whatever it is try to stick within the parameters you set yourself
- Prop Glitches are your friend and will vastly improve your creations. See fachuro 's easy to follow tutorials HERE.
- Who is going to be using your track? Keep in mind that peoples skill level might be lower than yours so design your track accordingly - rcracer11m
- Just because a lot of people play the track does not mean it is well designed in all areas.
Grid/Checkpoint Placements & Track Layout
- Track Flow is arguably the most important thing about any track, it's also quite hard to explain. When racing around your track everything you do should feel natural, like everything is supposed to be connected. Simply picking everyone's favourite corners and stringing them together does not make it a good track. - jbcarfreek
- Place the Starting Grid in a suitable location, ask yourself 'what's next?', if the first corner is a hairpin you'll always have incidents - LancerEvoWRC
- The narrower the Starting Grid the less incidents you'll have during the first lap eg. 2x15 is always going to be better than 3x10 - LancerEvoWRC
- The Starting Grid does not have to be 30 players, the chances your going to fill a race are very small - LancerEvoWRC
- Checkpoints need to be placed on the racing line (entry, apex, exit), overlook the turn, place the checkpoint in the place where it's unlikely a driver could miss it, no one should have to go out of there way to hit a CP.
- Checkpoints should not be solely used to point the direction but instead 'aid' the driver, it should feel like you are collecting them on your way round the circuit instead of driving on roads to the next checkpoint - Pardonias
- General Track Layout is very important, you have to anticipate what drivers will do, what speed they're going every time you design the layout e.g If the next section of the track is thin, drivers will need to be going slower beforehand to avoid incidents.
- Is the road suitable? If you can't fit two cars on a certain section it's too small, other things to check for are bumps, vehicle spawns, minimal run-off room etc. -Ser Tandur .
Prop Placement- Use your props wisely, you are limited to 150 props so don't waste them.
- Props should help guide the player around the track, this can be done a number of ways e.g use barriers to mark a turns apex or use 'arrowed' tyre barriers to indicate where and when the player should be turning.
- Defining a corner can be done numerous ways, some ways are better than others but they all have there advantages.
1. Corners with barriers on the inside should have the barriers follow the same route as the racing line instead of being placed at 90 degrees to the track, this is because when drivers hit a 90 degree barrier they will simply stop and impede other racers. With the barriers following the racing line, if a racer hits the barrier he will be 'pushed' to the tracks outer limits and out of the racing line. Here are two video example courtesy of LancerEvoWRC which demonstrate the best way to build a corner, Video 1, Video 2Using barriers placed at 90 degrees does however have it's advantages, e.g Broughy's 'Blaine County 24h' track is simply to long to have well proped corners due to the 150 prop limit.
2. Placing barriers on the outside of the corner to guide drivers around the corner and limit the amount of run off room in the entry/exit. Image courtesy of jbcarfreek 3. A combination of both is always best but obviously uses a lot more props.
4. Defining a corner is not always necessary e.g The hilly roads are often blocked off in the appropriate locations already. - Corner Exits and Run off's should be made so that they slow down and punish the driver for running wide, without bouncing back into the track, one way of doing this is to angle barriers to guide cars away from the track. Video example thanks to LancerEvoWRC here.
- Custom Built Corners are very hard to pull off and often do not work the way they're intended to, but they are possible and can be used to create new track features e.g Dockyard Autocross
- Blocking off Kerbs and Lampposts is not necessary and will use up valuable props, however a lot of players dislike Kerb-Boosting and loose lampposts due to the issues/incidents that can arise from these things.
- Re-spawning can be slightly manipulated to help reduce incidents, try turning your checkpoints so that cars will re-spawn off the racing line while still facing the correct way.
Testing the Track
- Follow other drivers around on the track, you'll notice when drivers aren't sure where to go, a new 'line' you'd not considered, a track exploit etc. It will only take a few laps for you to notice something needs changing.
- Test your track in GTA Online and not the creator, as a fully modded car is far quicker than a stock one and will you give you a true representation
- Something that will work fine in your head might not work properly in practise.
- Other people are better at picking out flaws on your own tracks than you are, ask for peoples opinions and tell them to be honest!
- If your struggling to get opinions on a track you can use this thread HERE or join the appropriate Crew Slack Chat HERE
If you think something is worth adding just post below and I'll add it in!
|
|
|
|
Post by jbcarfreek on Apr 14, 2015 16:28:40 GMT
Nicely done, great job!
|
|
averageloz
Member
Average4Lyfe.
Posts: 660
Registered on: December 2014
|
Post by averageloz on Apr 14, 2015 17:37:00 GMT
Thanks man, hope everything I wrote made sense! Especially the 'Track Flow' part, it's probably the most important thing but I find it very hard trying to explain it, I think it's one of this things you either get or you don't! |
|
dmiller187
Member
Posts: 865
Registered on: January 2015
|
Post by dmiller187 on Apr 14, 2015 22:13:22 GMT
This is an awesome thread, nice one.
|
|
rcracer11m
Member
You've gotta laugh, otherwise you'd cry
Posts: 1,053
Registered on: October 2014
|
Post by rcracer11m on Apr 14, 2015 22:24:18 GMT
One thing that I try to stay away from when making tracks is to stay away from tight sections that cause lots of crashes which block the road such as the vinewood hills or tight chicanes. For me at least the tracks in the vinewood hills are all bad because the walls are so close that you can't push your car because you'll likely make a mistake and any mistakes made affect everyone behind you and also its extremely difficult to make any clean passes.
|
|
averageloz
Member
Average4Lyfe.
Posts: 660
Registered on: December 2014
|
Post by averageloz on Apr 14, 2015 22:33:16 GMT
One thing that I try to stay away from when making tracks is to stay away from tight sections that cause lots of crashes which block the road such as the vinewood hills or tight chicanes. For me at least the tracks in the vinewood hills are all bad because the walls are so close that you can't push your car because you'll likely make a mistake and any mistakes made affect everyone behind you and also its extremely difficult to make any clean passes. I'll add this to the general section, basically people just need to keep in mind that not all racers are as good around a track as you, I for one cannot race in the vinewood hills at all without ending up in someone's swimming pool! |
|
rcracer11m
Member
You've gotta laugh, otherwise you'd cry
Posts: 1,053
Registered on: October 2014
|
Post by rcracer11m on Apr 14, 2015 22:36:40 GMT
One thing that I try to stay away from when making tracks is to stay away from tight sections that cause lots of crashes which block the road such as the vinewood hills or tight chicanes. For me at least the tracks in the vinewood hills are all bad because the walls are so close that you can't push your car because you'll likely make a mistake and any mistakes made affect everyone behind you and also its extremely difficult to make any clean passes. I'll add this to the general section, basically people just need to keep in mind that not all racers are as good around a track as you, I for one cannot race in the vinewood hills at all without ending up in someone's swimming pool! Its not even about how good you are those kinds of things require a very small mistake to lead to a large crash involving multiple people and no matter how good you are mistakes will always happen. |
|
averageloz
Member
Average4Lyfe.
Posts: 660
Registered on: December 2014
|
Post by averageloz on Apr 14, 2015 22:45:34 GMT
I'll add this to the general section, basically people just need to keep in mind that not all racers are as good around a track as you, I for one cannot race in the vinewood hills at all without ending up in someone's swimming pool! Its not even about how good you are those kinds of things require a very small mistake to lead to a large crash involving multiple people and no matter how good you are mistakes will always happen. I just took a different perspective on your comment, but that's also correct! |
|
dondeef
Member
Racing on P.C., employed as business intelligence analyst, 26 y.o.
Posts: 90
Registered on: May 2015
|
Post by dondeef on Jun 4, 2015 13:43:56 GMT
As also I am looking into creating some nice race-tracks, I've started Googling. Where else to start? I found this article on race track design and it's a very interesting read. For anyone interested in an article that analyses what makes a good race track for games: link. |
|
HydraVibes
Member
To anyone who adds me, please send a message first or else you will be blocked, just from my subs :/
Posts: 43
Registered on: June 2015
|
Post by HydraVibes on Aug 1, 2015 5:12:05 GMT
Awesome tips! These help me out alot to improve  on the track im making! Now I just need tips for the description of my race lol, that must truly be the hardest part.
|
|
|
|
Post by jeffreyb1990 on Aug 1, 2015 8:57:21 GMT
One thing that I try to stay away from when making tracks is to stay away from tight sections that cause lots of crashes which block the road such as the vinewood hills or tight chicanes. For me at least the tracks in the vinewood hills are all bad because the walls are so close that you can't push your car because you'll likely make a mistake and any mistakes made affect everyone behind you and also its extremely difficult to make any clean passes. A few roads are a little wider and can be used as a way through the area or in a very long track as just a tighter section. But when used you have to make sure the field will be spread out when it reaches that section. But in general you're right and the vinewood hills should be avoided. But if you go through it keep in mind that only a few roads are suitable. |
|
Prutoog
Member
If you no longer go for a gap that doesn't exist. You're no longer a nodo playlist driver!
Posts: 570
Registered on: June 2015
|
Post by Prutoog on Aug 7, 2015 23:50:37 GMT
On the subject of first corners and most importantly mass crashes that happen in first corners and how to avoid them from a creators perspective (even minimizing human error).
I've been testing with it on my tracks and have seen a handfull of them being played in the daily playlist on pc, which these days is almost always close to 30 players.
I'm slowly coming to the following conclusion(s):
First of all as mentioned in the OP, 2X15 is always best. Unless your straight isnt long enough, go 2X15. Even if the straight can easily handle 6 cars wide. 2X15 will simply allow for cleaner starts.
As for first corners the general rule I apply is never have the apex of your first corner be tighter then the straight leading into the corner. For example if the straight is 6 cars wide but the corner only allows 3 to 4 cars wide, you will have crashes. Because each of those 6 drivers will bet on themselves to come out ahead and they wont all make it.
The opposite is very much true. A 3-4 car wide straight leading into a 6 car wide corner will rarely cause mass crashes. Especially if the run out of the corner is even wider.
Now ofcourse the amount of straights+corners that fit the rule is eventually limited and we creators want to make tracks where we want to make them. Measurements can be made to fit the first corner to this rule.
What i've been doing(testing) with first corners is deliberately bottleneck them (not the corner itself but the part of the straight right before the corner). This may sound wrong but here's what I do:
If the corner is say 2 cars tighter than the straight or/also a blind corner. I put the aproaching cars on one side of the straight with whatever props I see fit. I leave it at least 2-3 cars wide but no wider then the corner.
So for example if the corner is a left hander I put everyone on the right side of the straight. This does accentuate the angle of the corner but it also singals caution. And that's what I want to achieve. Because I take away the extra space before the corner I force the players to be more carefull in aproaching that corner. So that idea that some may have 'I'm gonna sneak into that gap there' but then cause a crash never comes up because that gap is never there.(this is where you minimize human error)
Allowing only the same amount of cars aproaching the corner as the corner can handle.
After all as a creator it is my duty to guide players through my track as best as I can.
It might not be completely waterproof but I can confidently say that i've seen it work multiple times with 20+ players.
|
|
sngrmns
Member
Posts: 344
Registered on: December 2015
|
Post by sngrmns on Dec 27, 2015 0:14:12 GMT
[...]
1
- Follow other drivers around on the track, you'll notice when drivers aren't sure where to go, a new 'line' you'd not considered, a track exploit etc. It will only take a few laps for you to notice something needs changing.
- Test your track in GTA Online and not the creator, as a fully modded car is far quicker than a stock one and will you give you a true representation
- Something that will work fine in your head might not work properly in practise.
- Other people are better at picking out flaws on your own tracks than you are, ask for peoples opinions and tell them to be honest!
2
2. Placing barriers on the outside of the corner to guide drivers around the corner and limit the amount of run off room in the entry/exit. [...]
3
"Prop Glitches are your friend and will vastly improve your creations. See fachuro's easy to follow tutorials HERE." Thanks for putting this post together, great suggestions in here and it's nice to have them so nicely laid out. 1 These suggestions I especially like, as they are 'general practice' type things that I think really help, to get the right mindset for testing. My experience with the Creator is very limited, I really just 'dug in' and thought of something I wanted to create - and then tried to do it - without really reading or researching much. Now I'm looking to posts like these and inspecting others' work to try and gain a better understanding / more efficient methods for getting around the pretty awful UI (complete redesign for PC controls would be nice.. not holding my breath) 2 "guide drivers around the corner and limit the amount of run off room in the entry/exit." (and your whole section on Prop placement)
-Definitely agree of course.
although this is pretty much said / demonstrated by your diagram, by the open space at the end of the "Guiding Barriers":
I would mention (as someone who crashes / misjudges corner entry, exit a lot) that it can be worth also considering providing a path to a run-off area, designed not so it's easy for someone to necessarily recover from a mistake - but to give them a safe and out-of-the-way area to get re-oriented and get back on the track without interfering with other racers. Also without always having to use the "respawn" - sometimes it's faster to just carefully drive back onto the track. This is demonstrated nicely by your diagram, I know I'm not explaining this very well; the next time I see some good examples of this I will provide screenshots in order to demonstrate better what I'm talking about. Obviously we are very limited by terrain and static props on the map.
I can try to describe it a little better: consider a corner with tire barriers on the outside - by all means set the barriers so that people aren't exploiting off-track space in order to "cheat" a corner but also consider where people are most likely to go off if they make a mistake - provide a "gap" that they can aim for in emergency situation, in order to get out of the way of the rest of the drivers. This happens to me a lot and I always appreciate when I have a window to aim for. Something my dad always stressed when he was teaching me to drive / throughout my youth: Always be looking for a "hole". Consider where you can safely point the car, if that guy comes into your lane, or a deer jumps out, etc etc..
3 Wish I'd known about this stuff from the start of my endeavors! ;o) |
|
Rodgerzzz
Member
Posts: 146
Registered on: June 2014
PSN ID: Rodgerzzz
Social Club: AlexRodgers
Discord: Rodgerzzz#9652
|
Post by Rodgerzzz on Feb 28, 2016 11:47:46 GMT
I found a handy little trick today whilst messing around with prop placement that may be worth adding to the OP.
When trying to adjust the height of a prop, instead of using L3/R3 place the prop in the position you want it then zoom in on it. You'll hit a point where the prop starts to move with the camera and you sink props into the ground in a much more controlled manner as the movement is a lot less severe than tring to tap L3/R3. I found this particularly helpful whilst trying to make smooth rumble strips.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Registered on: January 1970
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 3:16:47 GMT
(Chicanes) even though chicanes are supposed to slow you down, try not to make them ruin your track. Always check twice if all the cars classes will go trough it, just because a super car can go easily trough it, doesn't mean that a van will do the same. Also, if you are making a chicane on the middle of the street, make sure to make it visible, otherwise people will just go straight into it and the choke fest will start.  Also try to use different props for the different parts of a chicane, don't just put 20 barriers with red stripes one after the other, one on the inside and the other on the outside, because that will confuse people and make them wonder where to go, since all the can see is a bunch of red and white stripes.  coming from experiences on other people track O.o still remember the choke fest on a event back on ps3 with supers on a chicane only with red and white stripes |
|
on the track im making! Now I just need tips for the description of my race lol, that must truly be the hardest part.
Also try to use different props for the different parts of a chicane, don't just put 20 barriers with red stripes one after the other, one on the inside and the other on the outside, because that will confuse people and make them wonder where to go, since all the can see is a bunch of red and white stripes. 