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Post by Hale on Dec 4, 2014 20:37:02 GMT
Another point, classes such as coupes where offroads make NO difference. Do we justify banning offroads on classes where they make zero difference? Really?I find offroads on my zion help it quite a bit. You look at the bump it gets over the sidewalks and its still horrific in the top coupes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 20:40:27 GMT
The point is we aren't a "proper racing crew" we are a community of people who enjoy racing ... that's the difference man. We aren't a proper racing crew either. We just want to approach racing in a professional manner.
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Deleted
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Registered on: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 20:44:18 GMT
Except in any proper race series, any exploit possible is taken advantage of to the nth degree. Even in spec series'. I don't actually like the curb boosts. The OR tires don't bother me as much, but yea I'd rather run different wheels. My favorite car to drive in game is the Turismo R, because it's just so well-balanced and the steering is amazing. If Rockstar came out tomorrow with a patch that removed the curb boost glitch and added more traction to vehicles running high-end or sport tires, I'd be a happy guy. That being said, in a supers race I'm 90% of the time running a Zentorno with OR tires and I'm using curb boosts as much as I am able. Why? Because I want to win and I'll take every advantage to do so. Until Rockstar patches this stuff, I'm not changing this approach. I totally understand where you are coming from. I used to do that too against my own will because if I hadn't I wouldn't stand any chance against my opponents. I swallowed my pride because I wanted to race with nice people.
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Post by Hale on Dec 4, 2014 21:08:04 GMT
Except in any proper race series, any exploit possible is taken advantage of to the nth degree. Even in spec series'. I don't actually like the curb boosts. The OR tires don't bother me as much, but yea I'd rather run different wheels. My favorite car to drive in game is the Turismo R, because it's just so well-balanced and the steering is amazing. If Rockstar came out tomorrow with a patch that removed the curb boost glitch and added more traction to vehicles running high-end or sport tires, I'd be a happy guy. That being said, in a supers race I'm 90% of the time running a Zentorno with OR tires and I'm using curb boosts as much as I am able. Why? Because I want to win and I'll take every advantage to do so. Until Rockstar patches this stuff, I'm not changing this approach. I totally understand where you are coming from. I used to do that too against my own will because if I hadn't I wouldn't stand any chance against my opponents. I swallowed my pride because I wanted to race with nice people. The issue i see with banning these things are this. Peoples arguments for it are this: 1. I dont like it . Well thats personal preference not everyone's forced opinion. 2. its not realistic. This is GTA not Forza. If you are going to force realism please remove all jumps from your races. These carbon shell cars would implode in landing on every one of them. It's not a sim it's an arcade. 3. Banning this sort of stuff creates a skill gap. Thats why you do it. We DO NOT split skill in any way. Several events have been previously shut down for splitting skill.. someone please justify these reasons for NoDo ?
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Post by iAP3XPRED4TORi on Dec 4, 2014 21:14:52 GMT
Having regulations in a sport is good sometimes. How would F1 look today if there were no regulations? Traction control, active suspension? The car would practically drive by itself. Now where's the sport in that? My view on GTA racing is quite simple. Stick to the limits of the road and race. Slapping on off-road tires reduces the amount of attention the driver has to pay to his vehicle. Why should we restrict our individual limits? We all already know that racing on GTA is far too easy. So if there's a little tweak that makes it a tiny bit more difficult, wouldn't that be worth taking? Now I'm not telling you people that this is the only way to race, I'm only telling you to at least here me out and test this method. I remember after the SB v NoDo crew battle, people slating us (SB) for not racing "properly". We listened to you and proved that we are very capable to race properly. Now we are asking you to take a step towards a more proper racing world, can't you prove to us that you are capable to do that? I'm aware that some people on a twitch chat has been a bit hostile towards certain individuals. If feelings got hurt, message me and tell me about what happened. I don't know if my message is clear to every single one of you, so if there's any questions you can just PM me. Most of us here are adults so there's no point in throwing dirt back and forth. That gets us nowhere. The point is we aren't a "proper racing crew" we are a community of people who enjoy racing ... that's the difference man. [br I concur^^ And as a community, most of us realize GTA racing is a mini game... Within a game. And enjoy it for what it is. Sound like some have MASTERED GTA racing ... Now find it boring. Looking for ways to make it exciting again. Well most of us are still learning... And still look forward to turning on that game console at the end of a long workday.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 21:26:52 GMT
I totally understand where you are coming from. I used to do that too against my own will because if I hadn't I wouldn't stand any chance against my opponents. I swallowed my pride because I wanted to race with nice people. The issue i see with banning these things are this. Peoples arguments for it are this: 1. I dont like it . Well thats personal preference not everyone's forced opinion. 2. its not realistic. This is GTA not Forza. If you are going to force realism please remove all jumps from your races. These carbon shell cars would implode in landing on every one of them. It's not a sim it's an arcade. 3. Banning this sort of stuff creates a skill gap. Thats why you do it. We DO NOT split skill in any way. Several events have been previously shut down for splitting skill.. someone please justify these reasons for NoDo ? I wasn't aware of that NoDo doesn't split skill so I'll apologize for trying to persuade you guys to a more professional side of racing. But if anyone feels like racing without any use of the kerb and off-road tires you are very welcome to the Sweat Buckets.
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Post by Hale on Dec 4, 2014 21:30:24 GMT
The issue i see with banning these things are this. Peoples arguments for it are this: 1. I dont like it . Well thats personal preference not everyone's forced opinion. 2. its not realistic. This is GTA not Forza. If you are going to force realism please remove all jumps from your races. These carbon shell cars would implode in landing on every one of them. It's not a sim it's an arcade. 3. Banning this sort of stuff creates a skill gap. Thats why you do it. We DO NOT split skill in any way. Several events have been previously shut down for splitting skill.. someone please justify these reasons for NoDo ? I wasn't aware of that NoDo doesn't split skill so I'll apologize for trying to persuade you guys to a more professional side of racing. But if anyone feels like racing without any use of the kerb and off-road tires you are very welcome to the Sweat Buckets. It's fine man, we know how u race and we like to race with you. We arent talking about the 1% of fastest drivers in this thread. This is a decision that will affect 100 members, not the minority of us sweaters.
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Post by Pundip on Dec 4, 2014 21:47:05 GMT
I'm not gonna lie, I can't really believe this is being discussed yet again. There is absolutely no need to create a crew wide ban on anything in this crew.
Off road tyres used to annoy me for the reasons that many have already stated (look ugly etc) but you know what? I learnt to deal with it. It's not a big deal at all. I saw a few people earlier mention that the SB ruleset of High-Ends for Supers etc creates a better challenge as it lessens the stability etc, to me that is a flawed system. If you want the cleanest possible race, surely you should be forcing people to use the tyres that generate the most grip and therefore the most control over their car. Not trying to bash SB, just making an observation.
Kerb boosting/kerb surfing/bump boosting....whatever you want to call it, it's here to stay. Again, I used to have a massive problem with it and have had several debates about it in the past, but once again I learnt to deal with it. Have I used it in a race before? Yes. Do I like to use it during a race? No, but that comes from my love of motorsport where all the forms that I watch (F1, Indycar, BTCC to name a few) are all forms of circuit racing where there are no pavements to exploit that give you insane speed boosts. So naturally I am more inclined to stay away from the pavements in the game. Should I get angry every time I see someone go sailing past me from using a pavement? No, unless they knock over lamp posts and stuff, then I'm gonna get pissed off.
For months now we have been going by the "what the event organiser says, goes" rules and that has worked just fine. There was a couple of times that my early events were called into question for implementing a ban on off road tyres but I just got on with it. It is literally a case of, if you do not agree with it, then do not sign up. Simple as that. I don't see it as being any different as the track choices for events and playlists. Certain tracks are better suited to certain drivers (or the other way around, depends on how you want to look at it), so for example Driver 1 is better at Track A than Driver 2. Where as Driver 2 is better at Track B than Driver 1. How is that any different than one person getting an advantage during a race by using a certain car or wheel over another?
At the end of the day, this is a game, people are free to do whatever they want with something that they spent the best part of £50 on and there is no way that anyone, in this crew or any other crew for that matter, is going to stop me from enjoying a game that I spent my hard earned money on. All I do in this game now is race and create tracks, I've exhausted the single player and I'm not interested in anything except racing in multiplayer....it's fun, that's why we're all here in the first place so let's just keep it that way.
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Post by tylerdurdin4 on Dec 4, 2014 21:58:33 GMT
Thanks for your well thought out statement on this topic broughy as it was much need. Your thoughts were exactly the same as mine and why I'm in this crew. Another factor is a lot of my friends are in gta race crew and will prevail if I don't take advantage of the kerbs and offroads (if they don't wreck). Example is on inner city sprint (144 without kerbs/139 with curbs on ps4 btw). Making tracks not allowing kerbs and special events is enough. The time zone difference makes it hard sometimes to catch you guys in europe. So it should be events only that have specific rules like this. Because there's no way to get everyone to make the changes in every crew. It's easier for shaggy to do this because he has a tight group that he has to join races. But we're talking about a lot of people to manage. It's more fun to have the rules more open and will build a larger community. It may not build an exclusive group of 100 super drivers, but there will still be some great racers at the top and the crew will be fun. And yes, being positive will help racers get better!
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demo
Member
If this is where i write it my social club is DEMONITION1723
Posts: 65
Registered on: December 2014
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Post by demo on Dec 5, 2014 0:09:32 GMT
I think its not right banning those things everyone can use off road tires or kerbs so why think it should be banned since they dont like them or they think off road tires look bad so they dont use them so why hasle people for going for peformance over looks and with cars banning elergy com on its free not like you cant get one, kerbs i dont know what it is never knew about it, it just means they went through corner better its about improving not complaining that they did it you van do it to and improve its just fun and games not they didnt follow the pack exactly so they cheated complain complain im mean seriously not like they use speed hacks
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2014 3:45:43 GMT
I don't think doing crew wide bans is going help anything. If worse comes to worse, people will either ignore the bans, or just leave, which helps no one in the end. Let the event organizers choose what to allow or ban, and don't give them shit for their choices. If you don't want to use curb boosting or off-road tires, just find like minded people to play with, or just don't race anymore like me.
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axdsilva
Member
SO distracted...
Posts: 403
Registered on: July 2014
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Post by axdsilva on Dec 5, 2014 4:49:16 GMT
Well I'll just this since can of wroms threads don't really bring out the best in me.
Bans - Useless, it doesn't encourage so much as enrage and repel so I wouldn't recommend it outside of isolated events where rules are indiviidualised per race as set by the host or whatever they decide.
Tires - I'm more for Rockstar to change them to actually have differences beyond reacting o bumps like grip since the cost needs to be justified, I just think offroad tires look out of place on sports cars, but I don't mind them in general, it's more a superficial preference I have.
Kerbing - I don't really care during hot laps but something overlooked is lag. A lot of us can probably say we've witnessed 'ghost taps' where someone fishtailed someone else accidentially whilst being clean racer on their screen. Having an area where people are encouraged to go faster by near-missing obstacles is a bad idea in this siutaion. I'm okay with kerbing as a race style, I also have noticed areas on the roads where there are not obstacles to hit which in my book make it acceptable. But since NoDo does have it's rules set out to navoid hitting lapost since it's inconsiderate to the racers behind that one, then why allow this on everyroad? There are roads that kerbing is irrelevant such as with stationary and no obstalces where it can be done without inconviencing someone else racing, to which I would approve, but in areas where it affects others, there should be some standard. Perhaps having an approved kerbing raod map would be useful, because otherwise this 'ghost tapping' can very well spread to obstacles without some precedent to which will cause people to blame their styles an themselves in incidents what were really no one's fault. That's my main conern on this subject.
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blackflag6
Member
Posts: 3
Registered on: December 2014
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Post by blackflag6 on Dec 5, 2014 9:59:50 GMT
First of all sometimes the lag factor is annoying! All the Lamp posts that gets hit thru Lagging or thru an accident makes it really hard for the following cars to catch up and win, it's nearly impossible to win it and it gets me frustrated when i am shortly for an overtake and than is there this stupid lampshade who kicks me of the track and get smashed in thru a building and explode, or even worse it becomes a multiple collision and everybody is frustrated. This is why Shaggy figured it out to stop this with the solution for this problem:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lCgsVCIDlk&list=UUtq9Cy_z9dyijNgGP9kPHxQ
Another thing I've noticed is, because I'm a new Racer (about since 2 months) its just impossible to race aganinst others like the GTA Racing Inc and GTA Racers crew or something like that.They had really no rules, non-contact racing, sidewalks racing, even thru gardens, over some barriers and thru fences, they took every single shortcut they could figured out. One of them I saw drove thru the kanal on a track i didn't know now what name it has but i can tell you where it is, you all know SHADY TREE, there is a kanal under the brigde and the track comes from the other side, so the turn is on the other side where you going under the brigde and some of them use the kanal as a regulary racetrack and at the end of the kanal shortly for the turn they jump back on the street.
This gets me boring, i'am mad of this, there is no chance to battle and certainly not a win. It takes months to drive like the others and a mind like a supercomputer to know every single sidewalk and corner you can drive on. And for a newbie it feels like cheating, when the others win thru the tricks, and newbies feels so much out of place. I never had the feeling that I'am actualy in a Race,it feels only boring and another point is HOW IS THE OTHER, the others can only drive behind thru the massaker of lamp posts and the other things that laying on the street and are totally unstrung .
One other thing is that only the Zentorno profit's the most from curbboosting, it's a fact and the Turismo has no chance against it,but some people, I'am one of them want to drive the Turismo because we like it more and we lose every time against the Zentorno's so Shaggy and his Guys stopped this by presented on a regular.
With that he had killed five or more birds with one stone, no things on the street thru sidewalkracers and lags,no shortcutting thru anything, a available choice of witch car you want to drive and the experience factor plays no longer such a big role for new Racers, I like that and i am very glad if you agree me with this that this Rules give the People a much bigger gaming experience and newbies feels not so much out of place, because one is always someone away in if you drive on the road and the others cut left and right thru all the place.
So that's how i feel about that and I hope you see it like i do now, that this Rules gives us a chance to bring more people together and its a bigger enjoyment for all of us.If the SB s and the NODO s are together we would be 2000 People who could Race together and its not that big problem to find somebody who's active and want to race and if it's a nice battle or a simple waste of time, for both ends.
And 1 thing at the end, I like Tracks that looks good and looks like a Racetrack.For all those they wanna have a better idea what I'am talking about try this Track: de.socialclub.rockstargames.com/games/gtav/jobs/job/ZGa09XZ7EUmx-pMZVl-b9Q
It has a PIT STOP, this was a great idea at your Endurance Race Championchip!
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gun1t123
Member
Posts: 40
Registered on: August 2014
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Post by gun1t123 on Dec 5, 2014 11:20:05 GMT
This is coming from a guy (myself) who has experienced it all. The reason for these restrictions/bans are quite straight forward in our eyes (SB). When there are players at the same level, we want racing to be clean and fair as possible. Racing should not give an advantage to one player in that one particular situation over another. Perfect example, (Starting Grid), Say player X starts right in front of a long pavement/curb, where-as player Z starts on the road with cars blocking him to his left and right. Of-course within proper racing rules, you're not allowed to willingly switch lines on a straight just because you see the advantage through curb boosting on pavements. I'll get to that in a bit. Now how could this possibly be fair on the player who misses out on that "speed gain". There are MANY different situations that you can get into, especially through corners where it's pointless taking the actual racing line on the road when people simply abuse lazy pavement lines which require little or nothing to pay attention to, therefore ending up into a damn lamp-post and ruining the race for the person who actually is sticking to the road behind. Racing is supposed to be racing in simple terms, why is it too difficult to go by this concept? If people are incapable of racing then that's fine in my eyes to let them do whatever the heck they want. Clearly the better driver would still win in this case. Anyone with a brain-cell would easily adapt to these rule sets without question as to how logical this approach is for clean/fair racing. With no restrictions, you simply won't ever get fair battles! Racing becomes pointless. You're merely just hot-lapping till a stupid mistake occurs in technical terms. Remember most mistakes occur due to people wanting to grab their nut sack left behind on the pavement, with them failing to grab it, they go back and forth till they hit something and cause debris on the streets for others to endure such cringe worthy "fair racing" (sarcasm).
We (SB) as a Crew have been accused by many people of lacking race-craft and racing knowledge, "Incapable of racing properly". That's rather ironic. Now we race properly by handing out simple rules for those with any sort of understanding of English could follow. One person simply directing through a microphone is enough in a pre-game lobby. Heck it doesn't even have to be an organised event. Now anyone knows this, a person who is not willing to follow such rules simply would not be counted through their results. A person who actually doesn't follow these simple rules are those who are incapable of racing properly in our eyes anyway. Any decent racer would know how to adapt to these rule-sets right away. We've been racing with these rules for about 2 weeks now, and so far no issues have occurred through refusal. We've had the most consistent battles through 6+ cars constantly. No issues with lam-posts and clean racing all around. This is the true beauty of racing. I'm not sure why this is such a big deal. Clean battles with race-craft is what people want right? Now for those wanting an advantage through every possible way, If that's what they require to keep up and race, and then still end up losing. Shame on them. Who gives a flying fish.
End of the day, we are looking for a fair equal playing field where battles actually mean something. Don't you actually want a legitimate over-take? What's the point of over-taking someone on a straight through curbs? What racing sense does that make? If you tell me that's their loss for not using the curb, then that's them not sticking to the racing line. Why race in the first place if that's going to cause collisions and not part of actual racing sense/concept? Is it that difficult to stick to the roads?
Track designs? Yes preventing curbs mostly comes down to this. Currently not many tracks are out there to prevent such things. However we've done our best to make tracks into a fair playing field. Which does allow comfortable battles to take place of-course. Most people cry about the narrow roads etc, which makes it difficult to over-take. That's part of the skill gap. If you can over-take on Monaco then there's no excuses for over-takes on GTA 5. The game is easy as it is for racing, why all the fuss?
Let me conclude very clearly as to what i'm trying to say. I'm not a forum guy, as reading most of these things make my eyes bleed. I'd rather have a vocal discussion then reading a herd of illogical statements which contradict everything and anything being said. When exiting from a corner, only 2 wheels are allowed to hit the curb for the proper racing line. If all 4 wheels go over the curb/pavement, you ease off gas for that extra broken speed you've gained. All 4 wheels should never hit the pavement anyway due to track design, don't forget. Now on a long straight, sticking to the roads is what we want to see and being the fairest/safest thing to do, not preventing people from crashing from your embarrassing mistakes of attempting to curb surf (grabbing your nut sack). We simply want off-road tires banned from vehicles that are not supposed to have them on in the first place. They give such a huge advantage with GRIP, of-course in turn giving you about 1.5 second advantage in lap times (Reducing the skill-gap to CoD levels). That's ridiculous (stating the obvious). Why can't we just stick to the simple logical concept of Supercars = High-end, Sports = Sports, SUV = SUV's, Muscle = Muscle's etc (Only applies to racing). Aesthetics? Seriously? Are you really going to be starring at your tires in a middle of a race, like really? For those who seek enjoyment through the things that make "proper racing" unfair, by all means continue doing this. That's not actual racing that involves ACTUAL RACE-CRAFT though. So that wouldn't mean anything at the end of the day. This isn't going out for the casual players. I admit this is certainly an elitist approach to those who are capable of racing with actual racing knowledge, and ofc having "GTA 5 Pace". I'm admitting that because this only applies for lobbies and races with those that have the competitive mind-set to race & Win Legitimately. Other-wise just hot-lap with non-contact and use all the curbs you like cause that's not racing after-all am i right? So for standard racing where race-craft is involved, it's logical to implement such bans & restrictions to allow natural flow of racing where cars can actually OVER-STEER, which requires throttle control to manage properly to go for consistency and clean overtakes. This ofc-course creating the skill-gap to see which players are capable of doing such things under a proper/fair racing environment. If this is hard to understand then i'm afraid the community will be split. That's quite sad as we're small enough as it is. Anyway we just want proper racing on GTA 5 which is what most wanted to see, that's what we're providing. So if that's something difficult to grasp, we can keep the community split this way to keep everyone satisfied through their individual capabilities for racing. If you want the game to play for you, then so be it.
Thank you for your time, simple understanding through our (SB) perspective is much appreciated.
Shaggyheresigningoutgoodnightcringepeace!
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Rocket
Member
Scumbag Teammate
Posts: 754
Registered on: November 2014
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Post by Rocket on Dec 5, 2014 13:13:27 GMT
How about nothing is banned and the skill gap remains? Lol
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